Why the man Fouke saw has to be Zodiac.

[Norse]

thanks. i guess i've never fully bought into the idea that fouke definitely saw the zodiac. coupled with the fact that it appears to have been an after-thought, days or weeks after, i just don't buy what he's selling. just my opinion.

I don't think ANYTHING is definite about what happened that night.

What I do maintain is that there is a very good reason to think that Fouke did indeed encounter Z that night: The simple fact that we have no other likely candidates. If the man he encountered was not Z, we're faced with this:

1. We don't know who the man was. He has never featured in the case as either a suspect or a witness as far as we know.

2. The SFPD could have - and would have, in my opinion - used this man to effectively avoid any sort of embarrassment following Z's letter describing his meeting with the two officers. If Fouke cruised past a random white guy who had nothing to do with Stine's murder, then why on earth would the SFPD withhold this information? It makes no sense whatsoever. They could have issued a press statement saying, plainly, that SFPD officers noticed a WMA on Jackson St who has been subsequently checked out of the investigation, meaning in plain English that he was NOT the taunting, letter writing Zodiac killer, period.

What we have, however, is a reaction from the SFPD which can only be described as damage control: Yes, the guy was observed by our officers - but no, he certainly didn't sucker them to the extent he implies in his letter, and let's not forget they were looking for a black guy at the time, etc.

What this amounts to is that the SFPD believed that Fouke had rolled past Z. And Fouke believed it himself. And the possible non-Z party he might have rolled past on Jackson has no materiality whatsoever.

[Tahoe27]

Let's not forget about Officer Zelms. He too (and I have no doubt) mentioned seeing the man. And whether or not you believe his spouse's full story, she did mention how much it bothered her husband and he that he used to carry with him the wanted poster.

So we can take or leave the "fact" they stopped Zodiac, but I have no doubt they, at the very least, rolled upon him.

Fouke said (in a video) "let them figure it out". Sounded to me like he still had hostility towards investigators. Maybe he was never promoted to detective...who knows, but from what I gather, it was Fouke & Zelms who directed the search into the Presidio...if I'm not mistaken. And if that is the case, it would seem a given Fouke & Zelms would have spoken with Toschi & Armstrong. It seems ridiculous Fouke nor Zelms came forward--pretty basic stuff.

[EndOfTheWorld]

Yes, SFPD did act like they believed the guy with the pleated pants, 3/4 length derby jacket, etc. to be the Zodiac killer. He probably was. But we can't say he was the Zodiac with 100% certainty simply because it was a big city with a lot of houses and streets and it could have been some guy innocently walking down the street. Too bad Zelms and Frank Peda died before they could be on "THIS IS THE ZODIAC SPEAKING."

[UKSpycatcher]

We can with 99.99% certainty. What are the chances Donald Fouke agrees with the sketch, other than a little older and heavier. He describes the crew cut, glasses, clothing all the same. If Donald Fouke hadn't agreed with the composite sketch, he would have said "that is not the man at all", but he didn't. Zodiac and Donald Fouke agree they crossed paths around Jackson and Maple. Zodiac referred to this as "about 3 mins after he left the taxicab." Three minutes walking at the average walking speed of 3.1 mph takes 170 seconds or nearly 3 minutes to reach the Jackson and Maple intersection, where Fouke said he spotted the unidentified white male. Unless Zodiac turned left or headed straight on at Cherry Street, we would have to assume Zodiac was working alongside an identical twin, and that is ludicrous. The man spotted by Donald Fouke had to be Zodiac, there is little alternative. Donald Fouke spotted nobody else on Jackson Street that night, other than the WMA he saw, so it couldn't have been some other 'guy innocently walking down the street.'

[EndOfTheWorld]

"unless Zodiac turned left or headed straight on Cherry Street""----maybe he did. The guy was an average-looking individual. I'd say more like 98% certainty, but who knows?

[DoctorS]

If it was a team, his partner may have been waiting to pick him up and drive away.

[Soze]

The lack of critical thinking is the whole reason why Zodiac has escaped detection all of these years.

Soze

[Marshall]

I really wonder why this is even a question. The Robbins kids who were watching Z wipe down the cab, rearrange Paul's body, and then walk away must have been able to give a good description of his clothes. Foulke, likewise, got a good look at Z. So, don't their descriptions match up? There was obviously no time for the guy Lindsey Robbins was watching to change his clothes, with Lindsey watching him walk all the way down Cherry to Jackson.

Something else I wonder about. Did Lindsey ever describe how Z walked? If Lindsey saw him walk with some sort of shuffling lope, or limp, or some other oddity, then clearly it was the same guy Foulke saw. My guess is, Z walked "normally" up Cherry street, then broke into a semi-run when he turned on Jackson. But description of his clothing, plus the timing and location, have to make it a virtual certainty it was the same guy, especially since it was the only person Foulke and Zelms reported seeing on Jackson at that time.

[Mr_Ammy]

First of all, I am from Germany. So if you get the feeling my English is a bit weird – thats why .

In relation to the Fouke-Zodiac-Incident I just want to state, that I am not pursuing any suspect-theories. I am not watching for any particular clues leading to known suspects. Though I am familiar with all the main guys from ALA to Gyke. Even in Germany Zodiac is a thing...

Most of the time I try to examine the case through Zodiacs eyes. And thats how the questions come up that are bothering me to the bone – if you can say it like this.

The main-question around the Fouke-Zodiac-Incident that is killing me reads: Why?

Let me show what I mean (assuming one person did the canon-killings):

Zodiac kills David Faraday and Betty Lou Jensen. Its dark. No witnesses. The shooting in the dark works out well. After the killings nobody got a real clue who was responsible, right? So - through Zodiacs eyes everything worked out fine. Nobody tacked on this heels.

Since it worked out that well he does not change his MO the next time. The following attack on Darlene Ferrin an Mike Mageau looks very similar. But this time the boy survived and even got a glimpse on Zodiacs face. But there is not a tangible description. The Zodiac was just lucky. Basically he did a sloppy job even with returning to the car and shooting Mageau and Ferrin again after hearing Mageau screaming in pain.

So the next attack Zodiac getting more cautious wearing that stupid hood, covering his face. Actually he does some kind of effort to cover up, even tough he is actually wanting to kill Cecelia Shepard and Bryan Hartnell. To kill is his plan, right? Why the hood? For whom is the hood? If he want to stab Shepard and Hartnell to death – why just not cutting their throats after the tieing telling them, he is the Zodiac. But in the end he is lucky wearing the hood, because Hartnell survived that kind of “slappy stabbing”. And without Zodiac wearing the hood we most likely would have known his face today. So thats a big thing in the whole Zodiac-Case - if you watch the happenings through Zodiacs eyes. Zodiac himself got to sit at home and must think “Pfff – that was close, thank god I was in disguise” after he learned about Hartnells fate.

And then – just two weeks later he kills Paul Stine in San Francisco. After the killing he turns right walking into Cherry Street. After some time, Zodiac walks slowly his way towards the Presidio and a Copcar appears. A Cop got out of the car (Fouke) and talks to Zodiac. Zodiac tells him, that he saw a suspicious guy in the opposite direction of the Stine-Murder. The conversation took about 2 Minutes or so. So – the Cops leave and again Zodiac must think “Pfff – that was close”. And he must think: “Crap, a Cop saw my face”.

So – after this incident NOBODY knew, that the guy Fouke spoke to was definitely the Zodiac. Could just be just some guy, right?

So here is the question: WHY, why on earth Zodiac did tell in his bus-bomb-letter, that he actually did spoke to a Cop? Basically he just told the police how he looked like with this confession, right?

After doing so much work covering up his face two weeks ago in the attack at Lake Berryessa he just tells the Cops how he looks like? That makes no sense.

So there are some conclusions here:

1. Fouke did speak with the Zodiac and the Zodiac is just plain stupid and incohrent confessing in his letter (but he wasnt before)
2. Fouke did not speak with the Zodiac and Zodiac was lying in his letter.
3. Fouke did speak with Zodiac, but somehow Zodiac was sure, that the encounter even would help him (wearing a disguise (as he stated himself) that would lead to a misleading mug shot for example)

So in Summary: After disguising in the Lake-Berryessa-Attack, why should Zodiac tell the police how his face looks like some weeks after – just voluntary?

So because of this (unanswered) question I most likely think, that Fouke did not speak with the Zodiac – or at least that the famous mug shot does not look like the Zodiac at all.

I hope this construction of thoughts is comprehensible .

[Coffee Time]

I've long believed that PH was an attempt to regain control of the narrative after Hartnell survived. Not a new thought, of course.

I believe the risk-taking was the biggest part of the thrill for him, which required upping the stakes. He was never interested in a fair fight, but there had to be a modicum of danger for him to get anything out of it.

Almost an entire month passed before he mentioned the encounter with Fouke and Zelms. This detail was omitted entirely from the original letter about the crime, which suggests he may have felt the heat was still on him when he wrote that 1st letter. We can get into all kinds of speculation here. (Would "unknown schmuck from Vallejo" be nervous at this point?)

Speaking strictly in terms of suspects who are directly connected to the Stine murder, I do wonder how likely it is that KQ, Robert West or Xen Anthony would have freely admitted they were stopped by F & Z. Of those 3, KQ (aka "the dog walker") was simply a bystander, but when Pelissetti discusses him, he only offers that KQ was (in his opinion) older and slimmer than the description. If we believe his version of events, he ruled out KQ purely on his own judgment. KQ was not a suspect at that point, as far as we know. West & Anthony, on the other hand, were actual "possibles."

But, what if West or Anthony -- IDed by the 8 year-old witness -- were Z, but the Robbins kids failed to ID them? That would've been a whole 'nother ball game. Too bad we don't know what happened.

I'm skeptical of the "descise," unless the disguise was the glasses, that's something that he only mentions in the 2nd letter and, rather coincidentally, at the same time he reveals the encounter with the cops.