Zodiackillersite.com

Hi..as far as I know, officer Fouke was with officer Zelms during the night of the Stine murder. Zelms, however, died only 2 1/2 months later on duty when surprising some burglars. It is said that two people had been convicted for his murder for 8 to 10 years in prison.

Now I wonder if Zelm's death was accidential? I could, if there were not only many Z letters before his death but also a call on January 2, 1970, claiming 'This is Zodiac. I just killed (inaudible)'. The call occurred at 1:59 pm at the FBI's Sacramento office switchboard. The voice on the line trails off at the end of the statement. This was similar to the LB call where the caller says he killed someone and then his voice diminishes at the end of his statement. The operator who took the call said that after the word "killed", the caller's "voice began to soften until it faded away entirely. Then he hung up."

Don't know if this is gossip, but now I wonder if there is a connection between Zelm's soon-after-Stine's death and Zodiac? And do we know who the two burglars were and if they can be placed e.g. to the Vallejo area?

Currently no access to it but there should be an SFC article on 1/27/07, p.A8.

QT

I do not think there is any Zodiac connection.

Please see this link provided by Seagull: viewtopic.php?f=84&t=30&hilit=zelms

I also believe she (and I) do have a copy of that newspaper article. Maybe seagull will beat me to the punch.

Is that call from the FBI files, QT? I never heard of that. To me, there is nothing about the murder of Eric Zelms that really seems suspicious. He was at the wrong place at the wrong time... twice... and the second time lost his life. He wasn't even really a witness to Zodiac although I guess Zodiac didn't necessarily know that.

I find it interesting that of the four cops killed in San Francisco during Z's active period, he managed to connect himself with three of them. Zelms encountered him walking away from the Stine scene and Z referenced Radetich (I believe) and Sgt. Brian McDonnell, who was killed in the Park Station bombing.

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/1967 ... php#page-1

Tahoe27 wrote:I do not think there is any Zodiac connection.

Please see this link provided by Seagull: viewtopic.php?f=84&t=30&hilit=zelms

I also believe she (and I) do have a copy of that newspaper article. Maybe seagull will beat me to the punch.

Thanks for the link..

I tried just copying and pasting the image links from the old site but the last part of the second article got cut off. The first article is okay though. I will re-scan and post the article tomorrow. It is at the old site here-

http://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com ... elms-slain

Eric, at the time of his encounter with a man who many, myself included, believe was The Zodiac, could not know that he has less than 3 months to live. This is why I really wish that after they were called to respond to a shooting (Fouke says that's what the despatcher gave it as) that they'd have stopped, got out of their vehicle with guns drawn, and ordered the lumbering stocky White Male to stop, before they approached the man to search him. If they had, they'd have discovered that, with a fatal shooting just yards away, this stocky man wearing horn rimmed glasses has a gun on him, same calibre as the murder weapon. He's also got ripped fabric material stuffed in his pocket that is soaked in blood, a set of keys that they could later determine were the ignition key for the cab that was driven by the victim, and finally, a wallet with driving licence belonging to a 'Paul Stine, 1842 Fell Street.' Now I don't care if your Melvin Belli, F. Lee Bailey or the Worlds No 1 escapologist, you ain't going to be able to deny the crime and wriggle out of it by hiring a top defence attorney.

I just wish, knowing what we know now, that Zelms would be murdered trying to stop burglars a few months after his encounter with The Stocky White Man on Jackson, I really wish that, while his life was cut short, he would forever be remembered and commemorated as one of the officers responsible for capturing, and subsequently putting an end to the reign of, The Zodiac Killer, the most feared and wanted man in the State of California at that time.

But, even though that never happened, I have always thought that Eric & Don played a big part, albeit inadvertently, of why Zodiac disappeared from San Francisco. They scared him into reality, that reality that let him know that, actually, he isn't 'crack proof' at all and probably knew that in terms of luck, he'd hit the lottery that night. Probably knew that by rights, he should be in a cell post Oct 11. Of course, I have no evidence to prove that Don & Eric were, in full or partly, responsible for Z going underground and the murders seeming to stop but I like to think it was because Eric certainly then did not die in vein!

I agree with the majority of what you wrote.

Although, I have always questioned whether that encounter affected him at all. He could have simply not taken credit for Paul's murder and "Zodiac" would have never been associated with it.

While at that moment it time, sure he would have been feared of being caught...but it didn't stop if from staking his claim.

Tahoe27 wrote:I agree with the majority of what you wrote.

Although, I have always questioned whether that encounter affected him at all. He could have simply not taken credit for Paul's murder and "Zodiac" would have never been associated with it.

While at that moment it time, sure he would have been feared of being caught...but it didn't stop if from staking his claim.

Agreed. It's something I've questioned and brought up in previous discussions. Just why did Zodiac race to the mail box the day after Paul's murder to claim the murder as his own when he would have known that he was spotted by police? As you said, once he knows he's spotted by police and other witnesses who give a description of him, why not just keep quiet so that 'the Zodiac' is never even considered as being the trigger man? It's not the most sensible thing to do, write a boastful letter announcing he, the Zodiac, is the cabbie slayer of Pacific Heights enclosing proof of claim in the form of a piece of the victims bloody shirt when he's been seen, and knows he's been seen, by police on a lit street at close enough proximity for one officer to give a highly detailed description of what the offender was wearing, and what he looked like. If Z had never wrote taking credit for the crime because he changed his plans after being spotted by police then we would probably not known to this day and the suspect composite, if it would still have been drawn up, would be long forgotten and just a composite of some guy who's wanted for a robbery and murder of a Cabbie in the City.

Tis strange how Z seemed to show no concern for the possible consequences of him taking credit for the crime as Zodiac when he knew he'd been seen by police. You'd think that, at the very least, he'd have slight trepidation, but he almost can't seem to wait to get to the mail box and sends the letter the very next day. Either his ego really was so huge that it overruled any natural and logical fear for consequences because his ego really did believe he was crack-proof or, he simply knew he couldn't be apprehended and publically charged with this because he was simply off limits, a prominent and respected figure, maybe a Law Officer 'higher up' himself? Then it's not his ego declaring himself crack-proof because he's too good for police, but simply announcing that because of who he is, he's untouchable?

The last theory there, the 'Z was a cop/detective' scenario is, I realise, quite controversial, but still possible.

Ps, I don't personally subscribe to this theory, but neither do I discount it. My only intent was to offer an alternative reason for Z's brag knowing he'd been seen by patrol officers.

Welsh Chappie wrote: ...You'd think that, at the very least, he'd have slight trepidation, but he almost can't seem to wait to get to the mail box and sends the letter the very next day. Either his ego really was so huge that it overruled any natural and logical fear for consequences because his ego really did believe he was crack-proof or, he simply knew he couldn't be apprehended and publically charged with this because he was simply off limits, a prominent and respected figure...

So who's the most prominent and well respected figure amongst the known Zodiac suspects?

JS

JusticeSeeker wrote:

Welsh Chappie wrote: ...You'd think that, at the very least, he'd have slight trepidation, but he almost can't seem to wait to get to the mail box and sends the letter the very next day. Either his ego really was so huge that it overruled any natural and logical fear for consequences because his ego really did believe he was crack-proof or, he simply knew he couldn't be apprehended and publically charged with this because he was simply off limits, a prominent and respected figure...

So who's the most prominent and well respected figure amongst the known Zodiac suspects?

JS

Well it depends, some people consider Kjell Qvale a serious suspect, even thought officially he is not. But if he was officially named as a suspect then he'd have to be by far the most prominent and respected.