Zodiac 37

Re: Zodiac 37

Postby MADAMEX » Sat May 13, 2017 12:24 pm

NAPA COMPOSITE DRAWING

The Napa Composite Drawing:
Cecelia Shepard saw the Zodiac minutes before he walked behind the tree. From that, she was able to give a description to County Deputy Sheriff Dave Collins. From that description, Collins was able to make a composite drawing. He showed that drawing to three girls who were sunbathing. They recognized the man as someone who had been watching them and, later, gave a description to a professional artist who made the Napa Composite Drawing. The Napa Composite Drawing looks just like my ex husband.

Napa Register Article:
The following was taken from an article in the Napa Register. It was written by Marsha Dorgan and published on February 24, 2007:

On Sept. 1969, Napa County Deputy Sheriff Dave Collins was on routine patrol. All that changed quickly, changing Collin’s life forever.

He was at Vichy Avenue and Monticello Road when the call came about a double stabbing at Lake Berryessa.

With red lights flashing and sirens wailing, Collins raced to the lake. The wounded Pacific Union College students – Cecelia Shepard and Bryan Hartnell, both 20 – had been repeatedly stabbed and left to die on an isolated peninsula at the lake in an area called the Oaks, about a quarter-mile north of park headquarters on Knoxville Berryessa Road.

The couple had gone to the lake for a picnic. Shepard first spotted a man watching them. A short time later the man attacked the couple after demanding their car keys and money.

Collins and Deputy Ray Land, who had been in St. Helena, were the first to arrive after the call.

“When I got to the scene I found the kids critically injured. Deputy Land went to help Bryan, and I tried to administer first aid to Cecelia,” he said.

Shepard had been stabbed five times in the back and five times in the front of her body.

“She was conscious, but going in and out of shock. She was in terrific pain. She kept asking me for something for the pain, but I didn’t have anything to give her,” Collins said. “She was cold and shivering. I got my uniform jacket from my car, wrapped it around her and then wrapped her in a blanket. I held her. She was very frightened and kept pleading with me not to leave her.”

Collins said he tried to be comforting but realized he needed to gather as much information about the crime as possible.

“I asked her, ‘Who did this. Did you know the person?’” Collins said. “She said, ‘no.’”

Although in shock and excruciating pain, Shepard did her best to tell Collins what happened.

She said she saw a man on the roadway watching them about 15 minutes before the attack.

“She said pretty soon he was within 50 to 75 feet of them. There were trees separating them. She said she looked up and he was gone. The next thing she sees is him stepping out from behind a tree pulling an executioner-style hood over his head. He started walking very fast toward them with a gun in his hand,” Collins said.

Shepard told Collins the man approached, ordered them to stay on the ground and said, “I’m an escaped convict from Montana. I have a stolen car. I want your car and money. I’m going to Mexico.”

“’The kids said, ‘sure’ and put their money and car keys out there for him,” Collins said.

At that point, the killer pulled two pieces of clothes line about two and a half feet long out of his coat and told Shepard to tie up Hartnell.

When Hartnell was hog-tied, the killer used the other rope to hog-tie Shepard.

“He then put the gun in his holster and pulled a knife from the holster on his other hip,” Collins said. “Cecelia said it looked like a homemade knife, about 11 or 12 inches long. He started stabbing Bryan in the back until he pretended to be dead,” Collins said. “When Cecelia realized he did not want to rob them, but kill them, she started screaming. He turned on her and began stabbing her until she also pretended to be dead. Then, he stopped and walked away. Cecelia said he was clam and collected.”

The Zodiac Killer had parked his car next to the victim’s vehicle. On their car door he wrote the sign of the Zodiac – a circle with a cross through it – as well as the dates of the Vallejo murders, the current date and time and the words “by knife.”

When he left, the kids managed to maneuver until they could untie each other. “Bryan used his teeth to untie Cecelia. Although they were in terrific pain and bleeding they were able to get free of the ropes,” Collins said.

“They started yelling for help. There was a fisherman and his son fishing in a nearby cover. The fisherman heard their cries for help but was leery, thinking they were trying to lure him to shore to rob him. When the screams for help continued, he looked with his binoculars and could see they were injured. But instead of going to them, he went to park headquarters and notified park rangers.”

Thinking they were abandoned, Hartnell tried to crawl to the road for help. But he was too weak and only made it halfway. That is where the ranger found him.

Collins said Shepard was the only victim able to give deputies a description of the Zodiac without his hood.

“She was incredible how she answered my questions while lying on this blanket in terrible pain and going in and out of shock. We used her description of the man to make a composite drawing,” Collins said. “Investigators canvassed the area with the drawing and found three young women in the same general area who were sunbathing. They said they saw the same man looking at them and acting suspicious about an hour before he attacked Shepard and Hartnell. They said for some reason he just up and left. They were three lucky girls.” (A second composite drawing was made from a description given by the three girls.)

The ambulance arrived and took the wounded couple to the Queen. By this time, Shepard was unconscious. Hartnell survived. Shepard, who never regained consciousness, died two days later.
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Re: Zodiac 37

Postby MADAMEX » Sat May 13, 2017 12:28 pm

(Sorry, but unable to post a copy of the Napa Composite Drawing here. But, would appreciate it if someone with more technical skills could do it for me!! You can also find them on line or in one of Robert Graysmith's books. Thanks!!)
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Re: Zodiac 37

Postby Marshall » Sat May 13, 2017 12:32 pm

If your ex husband went to high school with Betty Lou Jensen, that would make him a teenager when all the Z murders were committed. The witnesses all described Z as being considerably older than that.

It sounds like much of your case is built on the fact your ex lived near some of the crime scenes. But... a lot of people lived in Vallejo and the same could be said for all of them as well.
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Re: Zodiac 37

Postby Tahoe27 » Sat May 13, 2017 1:17 pm

Collins never mentioned the description (he says) Cecelia gave him in his report. He admits to this on video. "It wasn't important".

The composite came from the three girls.
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"...they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs--other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac's doorstep." L.A. Times, 1969
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Re: Zodiac 37

Postby MADAMEX » Sat May 13, 2017 11:28 pm

Tahoe27 wrote:Collins never mentioned the description (he says) Cecelia gave him in his report. He admits to this on video. "It wasn't important".

The composite came from the three girls.


Tahoe,

I found four Napa Composite Drawings on the internet. Three were on this site and one was on ZodiacKiller.com. I don't know which one was done by Collins, but the one on ZodiacKiller.com looks more professional and I would guess that it was done by Robert McKenzie, a sketch artist, from the description given to him by the three girls. I would also guess that the one that comes after page 108 in Robert Graysmith's book, Zodiac, was the one done by Collins from a description given to him by Cecelia Shepard, although he gives the credit to McKenzie. (Sorry, but I am unable to cut and paste the pictures here.) I have seen the interview on the video connected with the Zodiac movie that you mentioned. In it, Collins says that he didn't think that it was important to mention that the drawing was done by a description given to him by Cecelia and that she had actually seen her killer before he had gone behind a tree. (Sorry, I do not have access to the video at this moment for his exact words.) But, apparently, according to the article I quoted before, he actually had!!

Here are two excerpts concerning the Napa Composite Drawings from my book:

8:30 p.m., Sergeant Dave Collins and Deputy Ray Land:
By the time that Sergeant Collins and Deputy Land arrived at the lake, it was nearly eight thirty and twilight was giving way to dusk. When they saw the white and black Karmann Ghia on the west side of the road, they both slowed down and pulled into the Oak Shores parking area.

There, they were met by Sergeant White who had heard their patrol cars. He quickly began leading the men down the peninsula, stepping over the chain that he had left on the ground, to the point where the kids were waiting for the ambulance to arrive.

As the three men walked, White filled them in on what had taken place. Then, he said, “This is just about unbelievable. I’ve seen a lot of people who were cut up by boat propellers, fish hooks, fillet knives and this and that. But, nothing anything like this! That’s about the worst I’ve ever seen! Kids just chopped up! They were such nice looking kids, college students, well-mannered people. You could tell they were fine young people. Just cut up for no reason … no reason what so ever. I just can’t believe anyone in their right mind would do such a thing.”

When Collins and Land finally found Bryan and Cecelia, they realized that their wounds were possibly critical. Land immediately went to help Bryan and Collins went to help Cecelia. Once officers had arrived, Archie, Elizabeth and Mr. Fong, who had stayed in the boat, returned to Rancho Monticello in Archie’s speed boat not wanting to be out on the water after dark. But, Sergeant White and Ranger Land remained behind to assist in any way that they could.

When Collins first saw Cecelia, she was lying on the blanket with another blanket wrapped around her at the base of one of the oak trees. She was laying in the fetal position, going in and out of consciousness and in excruciating pain.

Collins went immediately to Cecelia to see if there was anything that he could do to administer first aid or do something to help her. She was crying and she told him that she was so cold that she was having trouble talking. So, Collins asked White to walk back to his patrol car, get his uniform jacket and bring it down.

As Collins put the jacket on Cecelia, he could see multiple areas on the front and back of her dress where she had been stabbed. She asked him to give her something for the pain, but he didn’t have anything to give her. She was very frightened and kept pleading with him not to leave her.

As they waited for an ambulance to arrive from Napa, Collins began to question Cecelia about the attack, trying to gather as much information about the crime as possible.

The first thing that he asked her was, “Do you know who did this to you? Do you know who it was?”

Cecelia, although her teeth were still chattering, answered, “No.”

Collins could tell that Cecelia was in horrific pain and shock. He could also tell that telling her story was helping her to keep her mind off of it.

“Bryan and I were lying on the blanket,” she began through her sobs. “Then, I saw this guy and he stopped and watched us. He was on the roadway watching us about fifteen minutes before the attack. Pretty soon he was within fifty to seventy-five feet of us. There were trees separating us from the man. I looked up and he was gone. The next thing I saw was him stepping out from behind the tree pulling on an executioner-style hood over his head. He started walking very fast toward us with a gun in his hand.”

Cecelia stopped to catch her breath, then she continued, “The man approached us, ordered us to stay on the ground and said, ‘I’m an escaped convict from Colorado. I have a stolen car. I want your car and money. I’m going to Mexico.”

“We said, ‘Sure’ and Bryan put his money, just some change, and the car keys out on the blanket for him.

“At that point,” continued Cecelia, “The killer pulled two pieces of clothesline about three feet long each out of his back pocket and told me to tie up Bryan. Then, he went over to Bryan and tightened up his ropes. Then, he came over to me and hogtied me. Then, he did the same to Bryan.

“Then, he put the gun in his holster on his right hip and pulled a knife … from the scabbard on his left hip. It looked like a homemade knife, about eleven or twelve inches long. He started stabbing Bryan in the back until he pretended to be dead. When I realized that he didn’t want to rob us, but kill us, I started screaming. He turned on me and began stabbing me until I also pretended to be dead. Then, he stopped and walked away. He was calm and collected. I could tell that he had no remorse. He had no compassion for anyone but himself.

“As soon as the killer left, we managed to maneuver until we could untie each other. Bryan used his teeth to untie me. Although we were in terrific pain and bleeding, we were able to get free of the ropes.

“Next, we started yelling for help. There was a fisherman and his son fishing in a nearby cove. The fisherman heard our cries for help, but was leery, thinking we were trying to lure him to shore to rob him. We kept on screaming and finally he looked at us through his binoculars and could see that we were truly injured. But, instead of coming over to help us, he said he was going to go over to Park Headquarters and notify park rangers.

“Thinking that we were abandoned, Bryan tried to crawl to the road for help. But, he was too weak and only made it halfway. That’s where the ranger found him.”

Collins was amazed at how well Cecelia kept answering his questions while lying on the blanket in terrible pain and going in and out of shock.

Cecelia Gives a Description of Their Attacker
Finally, Sergeant Collins asked Cecelia what their attacker looked like. “Did you see your attacker clearly before he put the hood on?”

Cecelia thought for a moment. Why hadn’t she thought of that before? Of course she had!! She had seen him as clear as day just before he went behind the tree. “Yes, I did!” she said, her eyes as wide as saucers.

So, Collins asked her, “What did he look like?”

“Well, he had … ”

To help her along, Collins began to ask her more specific questions, “Can you tell me what color his hair was?”

Cecelia responded, “Well, it was brown, dark brown … and he combed it back.”

What race was he?

“He was white.”

Collins asked, “What about his eyes? Could you see the color of his eyes?”

She answered, “No, he had dark glasses on underneath the hood. But his hair hung down across his forehead and was showing through the eye holes. It was dark brown, maybe black.”

“Well, how tall? Let me stand where he was when he came up to you, and look at me. I’m 5’ 10”. Tell me, how does he match my height?”

When Cecelia had first seen the man on the top of the hill, he had looked much taller than he was. Also, the hood added a couple of inches to his height. “Well he was just a little bit taller than you, probably an inch or two taller than you.”

Collins said, “Okay how much did he weigh?”

"He was overweight. He was bulky looking. His clothing were all dark, dark pants, dark shirt, dark jacket and the jacket was bulky.”

Collins said, “Well, I weigh 170 pounds, look at me and judge by my weight and see if you can tell.”

“Well,” she said, “He had to have been at least twenty to thirty pounds heavier.”

Cecelia continued, “He had the hood on, he put the hood on, and there weren’t eye holes. Instead, it was like a welder’s mask, an opening in the front of the mask itself.”

As Cecelia gave Collins a detailed description of the man’s face, he pulled out a note pad and began making a sketch. Then, he held it up and said, “Is this the man?”



9:00 a.m., Monday, September 29, Three Girls at the Napa Register:
The three women from Pacific Union College arrived at the Napa Register at nine o’clock a.m. on Monday morning. There, they met with Deputy Land, who had set up the meeting, and Robert McKenzie, the sketch artist. Using the sketch that Sergeant Collins had made from the description given to him by Cecelia Shepard and an Identi-Kit, McKenzie asked the girls what changes they would make.

From that, they were able to come up with a slightly more detailed composite sketch, although, it was very similar to the sketch that Collins had made from Cecelia Shepard’s description. Later, investigators began showing the new composite drawing to people who had possibly seen the killer at the lake or at the phone booth at the Napa Car Wash.

Sergeant Narlow and Sergeant Lonergan spent the majority of the morning interviewing various citizens and officers from other departments regarding the crime and other, similar cases. They also began a list of general suspects including origin of information and descriptions.
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Re: Zodiac 37

Postby MADAMEX » Sun May 14, 2017 12:45 am

Marshall wrote:If your ex husband went to high school with Betty Lou Jensen, that would make him a teenager when all the Z murders were committed. The witnesses all described Z as being considerably older than that.

It sounds like much of your case is built on the fact your ex lived near some of the crime scenes. But... a lot of people lived in Vallejo and the same could be said for all of them as well.


Marshall,

My ex was born in December 1951, and graduated in 1970 at the age of 18 1/2. Betty Lou was born on July 21, 1952, seven months later, and would have graduated in 1970 at the age of 17 if her life had not been cut short. He turned 17 in December of his junior year, just before Betty Lou Jensen and David Faraday were killed on Lake Herman Road. Therefore, he would have been old enough to drive a car, etc.

There was a time when it was unthinkable that a young person could commit such a crime. But, today that is no longer the case. Many murders have been committed by young people.

At FBI headquarters in Quantico, there is a saying, “Age is the hardest to predict. Never exclude someone because of a discrepancy of age.”

In the Napa case alone, Bryan Hartnell had described his attacker’s age as being between 20 and 30. Cecelia had also guessed his age to be between 20 and 30. And, Officer Slaighter of the Napa Police Department had said that the man’s voice was “youthful” and had predicted that he was in his early 20s. Yet, one of the three girls sunbathing at Lake Berryessa gave his age as 40.

Sharon Pagaling Hagan said, “Zodiac was a heterosexual male who was attracted to age appropriate women.” (Betty Lou Jensen was 16 at the time of her death and it is believed that most of the time, a killer knows their victim.)

AK Wilks said, in regard to Ted Kaczynski, “His first confirmed Unabomber crime was in 1978, when he was 36 years old. Yet, we know from research that the most active and violent period for the majority of serial killers is from their late teens to late twenties. And we see that Kaczynski reports the motivation, desire and ability to kill at least as early as the summer of 1966.

Michael Mageau saw the Zodiac for a moment in the light from his car when he went back to the car to do something. At the scene of the crime, he described him as “Young … heavyset … in a light tan car.” (Zodiac, page 31.)

Bryan Hartnell said that the Zodiac had a voice, “like a student’s.” (Zodiac, page 67.) He also said, “It was a remarkably calm voice that came from beneath the hood, a voice that was not high or low-pitched, a monotone. The speaker sounded to Bryan to be between twenty and thirty years old.” (Zodiac, page 31.)

In Napa, when Bryan Hartnell and Cecelia Shepard were stabbed, detectives “located a witness who was having lunch at the general store at the time and who felt the man was acting highly unusual. He had even followed him out of the store and watched him get into a white automobile and drive away from the lake. “He matched the description,” I told them I recalled the man seen at the lake was thought to be much younger than Walker.” (Zodiac, page 190.)

After the Lake Berryessa stabbing, Officer Slaight received a call from the Zodiac. Later he said, “It sounded like the voice of a man in his early twenties …” (Zodiac, page 75.)

Teenage witnesses to the Paul Stine slaying described the killer as “a white male … around twenty-five or thirty years of age …” (Zodiac, page 95.)

According to Graysmith, Detective Toschi, of the San Francisco Police Department, sent Kathleen Johns, deceased, a series of photos of suspects. The ages were between twenty-eight to forty-five. (Zodiac, page 140. When Graysmith asked Kathleen about it later, she said, “Yeah, he sent them through the Stanislaus County Sheriff. But I felt that the suspect was younger and not in those pictures. If I saw him again, though, I would instantly recognize him.” (Zodiac, page 140.)

Robert Graysmith went on to say, “If it was the Zodiac that she had escaped from, then Kathleen had seen him up close and without a disguise longer than any of the victims.” (Zodiac, page 141.)

On November 11, 1970, a man from Vallejo driving a white Chevrolet was cited following a woman in Santa Rosa. Unfortunately, the ticket was purged from the records. But, she described him as young, twenty-three to twenty-four. (Zodiac, page 318.)

Other indications that the Zodiac was young include the fact that the gun that the Zodiac used on Lake Herman Road was possibly a .22 caliber J.C. Higgins Model 80. They were typically used by young boys and the front cover of the box displayed a drawing of a young boy shooting squirrels. I would also like to point out that, at that time, it was not required that someone be a certain age or have a permit to own a gun.

Also, according to Sharon Pagaling Hagan, “These crimes occurred on weekends or holidays. He was a weekend offender and that shows us that he was employed Monday through Friday. And, he was very busy during those days. He was not free to commit crimes. He was not free to hunt for victims. So, he lived a structured life Monday through Friday. Then, on weekends, he seems to have been adrift. I think he spent a great deal of time driving around and hunting and looking and fantasizing about what he was going to do.” This could also indicate a school schedule.
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Re: Zodiac 37

Postby Tahoe27 » Sun May 14, 2017 11:36 am

I know all about Collins and I think he was bs'ing quite a bit. I have seen that article in the newspaper before. He either lied or they were (very) wrong.

Why would Collins get such detailed info, then fail to see why it was important? The Fincher people called him out...and he got caught.

Check the P.D. reports...Collins practically quotes exactly the questions a different officer asked. He was either a lousy cop, or a liar...either way... :roll:
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"...they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs--other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac's doorstep." L.A. Times, 1969
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Re: Zodiac 37

Postby MADAMEX » Sun May 14, 2017 12:13 pm

Marshall wrote:If your ex husband went to high school with Betty Lou Jensen, that would make him a teenager when all the Z murders were committed. The witnesses all described Z as being considerably older than that.

It sounds like much of your case is built on the fact your ex lived near some of the crime scenes. But... a lot of people lived in Vallejo and the same could be said for all of them as well.


Marshall,

The moment of realization came to me in 2007, eight years after we had divorced, after watching the Zodiac movie with Justin Chambers, seeing several of the places where the Zodiac had attacked his victims and realizing that those were the same places that he had taken me to. After watching the movie, I did some research on the internet. That's when I realized that he was in the same grade as Betty Lou Jensen went to the same schools for 5 years and lived 1/2 mile away from her. But, during a three year engagement and 24 years of marriage, he had never mentioned knowing one of the Zodiac's first victims. For the next six months, I did a lot of research about the Zodiac and found that my ex drove the same type of car, matched the Napa Composite Drawing, fit the descriptions given by many of the witnesses and that the Zodiac may have used his name in two of his coded messages. Still, the real clincher for me was when I compared his handwriting to that of the Zodiac. (I would be happy to share that here, but haven't figured out how to accomplish that yet.)

Anyway, it is important to show criminal culpability by proving that someone was in the vicinity of a crime scene in order to prove opportunity. (The other two burdens of proof are motive and means: "The ability of a suspect to commit a crime is the means, the reason the suspect needed to commit the crime is the motive, and whether or not the suspect had the actual chance to perform the crime is the opportunity.")

As you said, all but the handwriting samples, are considered circumstantial. (Handwriting is solid evidence since no two people have the exact same handwriting.) Still, I only present this information in order for the police to begin an investigation to come up with some tangible proof. Perhaps they could interrogate him, give him a lie detector test, search his home or the home he lived in at the time. Fingerprints would be another piece of evidence, but the Zodiac didn't leave any fingerprints behind at his first two crime scenes. And, according to his letters, he was very careful not to leave fingerprints at his subsequent crime scenes. I would be surprised if the hood, etc., is still around since, for one reason, the boy at Lake Berryessa who saw the Zodiac walking after the attack did not mention seeing him carrying a hood. Still, he could have been carrying it under his jacket, who knows? (In the mean time, my ex is still involved in my children and grandchildren's lives!!)

If you combine other elements with opportunity, such as the physical description, the odds can begin to stack up against a particular suspect as in the following example:

Coming up with a basic profile of the Zodiac is important for several reasons. Using that information can narrow down the pool of possible suspects.

Evidently, the Zodiac lived in the Bay Area between December 20, 1968; when David Faraday and Betty Lou Jensen were shot and killed on Lake Herman Road; and March 13, 1971; when he sent his sixteenth letter to the LA Times; which was post marked from Pleasanton. It is also likely that he was still in the Bay Area on January 29, 1974 when he sent the “Exorcist” letter; which was post marked from San Francisco; claiming that he had killed 37 people.

According to Dr. Kim Rossmo, Research Professor at the Department of Criminal Justice at Texas State University, by using Rigel, a geographical profiling system, he was able to determine that the Zodiac probably lived either in the North West area of Vallejo, near Mare Island, or in Benicia. Actually, the house where my ex lived with his family was right in the center of these three areas.

Dr. Rossmo went on to say that “twenty-six thousand people lived in Vallejo at that time of which thirteen-thousand were males. And of which only a certain portion of those would be of the correct age. And, only a certain percentage of those will be white … We actually have a pretty small subset. And, we start combining that with some of the personal and behavioral descriptions and then we work in the vehicle information. If the case was active today, it would not be too difficult to find this person.”

So, we know that there were 26-thousand people living in Vallejo at the time of the Zodiac slayings and that approximately half of those were males, or 13-thousand. Using national averages, we can assume that approximately 26% of those men were between the ages of 20 and 30, or 3380 men. Of those men, 23% were African American. And, since witnesses said that the Zodiac was a white male, we can rule them out as well. That leaves 2,603 men. Men in this age group were eligible for the draft during the Viet Nam war, which ended on January 27, 1973. It appears that 1 in 7 men who were between 20 and 30 had either been drafted or fled the country. (My ex was 4-F due to a previous neck injury and did not go to Viet Nam.) If we take 2,603 and divide it by 7, we get 371. That leaves 2232 men that fit the description. As I said before, the Zodiac was probably right handed and since 8-15% of people are left handed, we can subtract another 111 mean who were left handed leaving 2121. Now, out of 26,000 people living in Vallejo, we have already narrowed it down to 2121 possible suspects or 12.25% of the population of Vallejo that actually fit our criteria. In other words, we have already eliminated 87.75% of the people in Vallejo.

Next, Dr Rossmo said to work in the vehicle information. There were several reports of a white, 1963, Chevy, later known as a Nova, in the vicinity of several of the crime scenes. So, the next question is how many of those 2121 men drove a white Chevy? In 1960, there were approximately 180 million people in the United States. In 1963, for example, a year reported by one of the witnesses, the Chevy was a very popular car and 375,000 were manufactured. That would suggest that one out of every 480 people owned a Chevy. So, if you go back to the original population of Vallejo, 26-thousand, and divided that number by 480, we get approximately 54 people who drove a 1963 Nova in Vallejo. If one out of four Chevys sold that year was white, that number could theoretically be reduced to 14. If 12.25% of those people were white males, between the ages of 20 and 30 who were right handed, we can multiply 14 by 12.25 and come to only 1.1 men who fit the description of the Zodiac as given by witnesses.

Now, Dr. Rossmo said that we could further reduce that number by using some of the personal and behavioral descriptions. For example, if half of those men had light or red hair and the other half had dark, brown or black hair, we can divide the number by 2, which equals .55 men. We can further narrow down that number by the number of men that were 5’8” tall and wore a size 10-10 ½ show.

Lastly, according to Dr. Rossmo, we can even further reduce that number by the number of people who fit the psychological profile as well. (My ex was abandoned by his mother at the age of 2.) And, by using such forensic tolls as handwriting analysis, DNA or fingerprints, we can pretty much eliminate the element of doubt altogether!!
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Re: Zodiac 37

Postby MADAMEX » Sun May 14, 2017 12:43 pm

Tahoe27 wrote:Collins never mentioned the description (he says) Cecelia gave him in his report. He admits to this on video. "It wasn't important".

The composite came from the three girls.


Tahoe,

I was finally able to access the video with Collin's interview. This is what was said:

Collins - Cecelia said, "I saw this guy. He was coming down the hillside and he seemed to stop and watch us. He was looking at us ... Pretty soon, he was within 75' away ... he stepped behind a tree."
Interviewer - Why doesn't anyone know that she had seen his face ... why is that unknown?
Collins - I didn't report it.
Interviewer - Why didn't you report it?
Collins - You know, at the time, I didn't think it was important.

He goes on to explain how Cecelia gave him a description of their assailant, but didn't mention actually doing the drawing. I will have to look into that further.
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Re: Zodiac 37

Postby Marshall » Sun May 14, 2017 1:07 pm

MADAMEX wrote:
Marshall wrote:If your ex husband went to high school with Betty Lou Jensen, that would make him a teenager when all the Z murders were committed. The witnesses all described Z as being considerably older than that.

It sounds like much of your case is built on the fact your ex lived near some of the crime scenes. But... a lot of people lived in Vallejo and the same could be said for all of them as well.


Marshall,

The moment of realization came to me in 2007, eight years after we had divorced, after watching the Zodiac movie with Justin Chambers, seeing several of the places where the Zodiac had attacked his victims and realizing that those were the same places that he had taken me to. After watching the movie, I did some research on the internet. That's when I realized that he was in the same grade as Betty Lou Jensen went to the same schools for 5 years and lived 1/2 mile away from her. But, during a three year engagement and 24 years of marriage, he had never mentioned knowing one of the Zodiac's first victims. For the next six months, I did a lot of research about the Zodiac and found that my ex drove the same type of car, matched the Napa Composite Drawing, fit the descriptions given by many of the witnesses and that the Zodiac may have used his name in two of his coded messages. Still, the real clincher for me was when I compared his handwriting to that of the Zodiac. (I would be happy to share that here, but haven't figured out how to accomplish that yet.)

Anyway, it is important to show criminal culpability by proving that someone was in the vicinity of a crime scene in order to prove opportunity. (The other two burdens of proof are motive and means: "The ability of a suspect to commit a crime is the means, the reason the suspect needed to commit the crime is the motive, and whether or not the suspect had the actual chance to perform the crime is the opportunity.")



Being in the vicinity, having motive and means, does not come remotely close to proving guilt. A person can live in the same city with someone they don't like, and they can have a handgun or knife. There's vicinity, motive, and means.

It seems like these are the three things you're trying to establish. But every other kid in Betty Lou's school also knew her, and lived near her. Most of these kids probably had access to a car and a gun (their parents, or some other way to acquire them.) Not to mention BLJ's neighbors, relatives, friends, the milkman, mailman, shopkeepers, the local barber, school employees, members of her church, and everyone else in the community.

But so far I think the main problem, besides lack of hard evidence tying him to any of the crimes, is that not a single witness described Zodiac as a 17 year old kid. Don Foulke, an experienced police officer, pegged Z's age at twice that.

You can list a thousand reasons why your ex "could have been Zodiac." But it only takes one conclusive fact to make it impossible.
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Marshall
 
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