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Trav, for the things you just mentioned, while we see some similarities in various people's writing, what is your opinion when you see writing that looks nothing like Zodiac's??

Nice work, Mike! The printing on the marriage certificate certainly does look like the Reverend Fliger's writing and it is not that of EVB Jr.

I think that the problems with comparing handwriting begins with the fact that here in the US we were all taught to write by the same method. It is as we get older that our handwriting evolves and we develop characteristics the set our own writing apart from the writing of others. This is where spacing, letter connecting, slant and other factors come into play as Trav and others have pointed out in the past.

morf13 wrote:Trav, for the things you just mentioned, while we see some similarities in various people's writing, what is your opinion when you see writing that looks nothing like Zodiac's??

It has changed over time morf. At one point I might have said "no way" that'z Z but then with things like Manalli I have to try and see past the styling and start to take underlying habits into account (as Deb lists in her previous post). Now the needle is kinda nudging back towards the bulk of Z's writing being close to, if not actually his writing. In the contested, albeit authenticated, letters I can see his 'habits' carried through but even though that makes it sound like I'm getting a handle on his 'style' I still have to check. I mean without checking or provenance I/we could convince ourselves that any similar writing is Z.

I'm becoming reasonably satisfied that even if a writing sample looks nothing like Z it will share commonalities if it was him. The canonical letters, IMHO, prove and illustrate that. Now if it looks nothing like Z's writing and doesn't share any habits, as best we can define them, then it's most likely not his writing.

I've either said this recently or just thought it but I think Zodiac did us a huge favour in his letters. He actually pre-empted the question of what his writing might look like if what we see wasn't his normal style, He showed us and highlighted his underlying habits by supplying letters that were in different styles but were still identifiable.

So well stated Trav. What do you think about the April 78 letter ? The "experts" at first did believe that it was Zodiac's writing, but later said no, except for the King of the Experts Sherwood Morrill who said it was for sure written by Zodiac. I think they got wind of Toschi writing the fan letters and that made them think that he could have done that one. For me the" bu" that was crossed out in that letter, then using "smarter" in its place because he could spell that one, was a dead giveaway that it was Zodiac.
Because I do believe he had poor spelling ,when he started to misspell the word" better" he change it, and a moment later he remembered how to spell that same word. That can happen to people who have had head trauma, I know because I do that myself. The other thing that caught my attention was when he wrote I am back with you , then says I have always been here , as if to cover up the fact that he did leave the area . for a few yrs. I think a copycat would have put in some sort of a Zodiac threat, but then that is what I believe.

sandy betts wrote:So well stated Trav. What do you think about the April 78 letter ? The "experts" at first did believe that it was Zodiac's writing, but later said no, except for the King of the Experts Sherwood Morrill who said it was for sure written by Zodiac. I think they got wind of Toschi writing the fan letters and that made them think that he could have done that one. For me the" bu" that was crossed out in that letter, then using "smarter" in its place because he could spell that one, was a dead giveaway that it was Zodiac.
Because I do believe he had poor spelling ,when he started to misspell the word" better" he change it, and a moment later he remembered how to spell that same word. That can happen to people who have had head trauma, I know because I do that myself. The other thing that caught my attention was when he wrote I am back with you , then says I have always been here , as if to cover up the fact that he did leave the area . for a few yrs. I think a copycat would have put in some sort of a Zodiac threat, but then that is what I believe.

Yes the infamous 78 letter. The jury in my head is still out on that one. It's on my to do list but I think it's a good thing that I haven't tackled it yet. More time spent looking at the confirmed letters and the confirmed but contestable ones gives me more of a feel for his habits so if the 78 letter was Z I would have a better chance of spotting it. In theory anyway.

I am haunted by Sherwood's opinion on it in a way because I can see what he saw in the other letters he authenticated but for now that hasn't happened with the 78 letter. Mind you that may simply be because it wasn't included in my 'artwork' where I put all the letters together for quick reference so I'm not always seeing the 78 letter as often as I would the main ones.

It's not just that Sherwood said it was Zodiac, it's that he said if people thought Toschi wrote it then Toschi was Z. He didn't just say it was Z, he gave a qualifier as emphasis as to how strongly he believed it was written by Z. So in that respect I'm torn. It doesn't feel right to me but there might be something there and hopefully I'll either see it or not see it in time.

I'll tackle it when the time is right and get back to you on the other points you raised about it and how I feel about them then.

The other thing is Z's own behaviour regarding the letters. These were a big part of who he was or how he wanted to be perceived. His vehicle as it were. He put a fair amount of work into them and the one thing that jumps out is the alterations and variations. From the Cheri Jo letters, even the desk poem, through to the main Zodiac letters and then the differing styles at the end. In a way, and I've said this before, it feels like he's challenging the document examiners and testing himself. "Can you spot these" and "Am I good enough to get these past you?". There's something personal about it and by that I mean personal to himself as if it's something he's proud of and believes he's good at. This ability to alter styles, copy styles. That's possibly even evident in the copying of the font style of Belli's house address on the envelope of the letter he sent to him.

So ... that's in the back of my mind as well. Did he finally manage it? Is the 78 letter actually him? Styled in a way to be taken seriously but crafted in a way to be mis-identified? Pure speculation but just some of the things I've come to consider about Z's ability in this area and his possible motives.

I vote NO on the 78 letter being real

morf13 wrote:I vote NO on the 78 letter being real

I probably will too and probably have in the past. Still, with a little more experience under my belt I'll hopefully be able to come a conclusion that satisfies myself at least.