Zodiackillersite.com

by **Mr lowe** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:11 pm

Smokie my thoughts are not with a deliberate pivot implementation by z. Because i dont think he would give a clue or direction and i dont think his skill set was much more than basic training and or books. my untrained opinion only. oh and if it is a clue or direction its not a very good one.. it has not helped.
Doranchac did some work recently on statistical analysis on the probability of a pivot then two pivots and two pivots in the same direction. odds were very high against it happening from memory. I think the pivots are relevant but its got me stumped how and why.
Doranchacs visual period calculator where @ 39 the red and blue pivots are completely broken up into individual locations but all individual pivot n are brought together adjacent to each other, a red and blue scattered throughout the cipher, "technically bringing the two pivots together".
I feel that it is a route transposition or double route transposition problem. ie odds evens top half bottom half with a scytale or rail fence.
my brain hurts.

by **Jarlve** » Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:46 am

smokie treats wrote:I think that the cycle test results, although circumstantial and inconclusive regarding the pivots, do add to what we know about the 340 and work with other test results. I see three possible explanations for the pivots, not necessarily in this order:

1. The pivots are a naturally occurring result of the cipher, except that we can't figure out how to make a cipher with improbable period 29 / 39 bigram repeats in count, improbable period 15 / 19 repeats in count and symbol count, and pivots. And two pivots are highly improbable in any cipher that we can think of.

2. Zodiac was unaware of the period 15 / 19 and 29 / 39 repeats he was creating, which seems likely. None of the cryptography books describing transposition also discuss advanced period detection. But then he got extremely lucky when intentionally writing the pivots to either play some kind of game or give us a hint as to what he did, and he wrote the pivots at the same exact period as the period 29 / 39 spike. There would still be a period 29 spike without the pivots.

3. Zodiac, although the cryptography books didn't discuss advanced transposition period detection, somehow had an advanced knowledge of them and realized that he was creating period 29 / 39 bigram repeats. And he wrote the pivots as a clue to what he did.

Which of the above scenarios seem more likely?

Of course, recent cycle testing shows dark rows where the pivots are. Of course it does.

Jarlve, thanks for posting your work in this thread!

As you say, either the pivots are intentional or they are a naturally occurring result of the cipher. Between the two, many theories can be formed as to why and how and until we have solved the cipher it seems to be a thing of personal preference.

There are cases where extraordinary coincidence delayed research for years. Such as the painting in The Old Lady Killer case: "Then an odd coincidence distracted the investigation: at least three of Barraza's victims owned a print of an eighteenth-century painting by the French artist Jean-Baptiste Greuze, Boy in Red Waistcoat.". From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juana_Barraza

I don't want to diminish the pivots that way but sometimes when you can't get around something, it may be better to leave it aside for a while. I find our intelligence analogous to a hill-climber, we can get stuck in local maxima.

by **Jarlve** » Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:58 am

I am working on something very promising that we talked about several years ago, a true cycle hill-climber which tries to reduce the ciphertext to plaintext using only cycle information.

That way, it generated the following plaintext from the 408, note that it doesn't care about which letters it uses:

Code: Select all: RQRENERGQRUFJNDJG NMNTOLINRHREEIBLT VYLURVRSBTDCYLUHV OEERGGRUFMRQKFCBP RUHVNYICCNIHMNTPL ENBOUREVVNBDPHKOE FCDVLPCUPBOGTYOGG HIERGGEDBPHVRUFFR ANEBNVVNBIPHHVCRG GRUFNXJNCCETPRHRI NANUMNVHNDHVCUFNH VRUFWTLCCITEEDYYM RHVPFRDQHVCMPEHJO CVIYRHRPHVCCMVNER KRNRMRGGMNCNMTDUR UJOCCKRTNSUKOQQVV CRVOAPERQQNKMRGGM NTDBNBWIGPANERMRG QUTHFRANWILBWUOBN MNTOLEPWTLMRQGHDW HIIGDRKDMUICSHIJB WTIGGNTHRUFDYIQOA NEYTDBWPYVNCGRYNN MPDCRNVNBPHVVJRVR

Then fed into the substitution solver produced this, note a reasonable accurate decryption:

Code: Select all: Score: 18015.15 Ioc: 0.06435 ILISESILLINGPEOPL EWECAUOEITISSOMUC HFUNIHIAMCORFUNTH ASSILLINGWILDGRMA INTHEFORREOTWECAU SEMANISHHEMOATDAS GROHUARNAMALCFALL TOSILLSOMATHINGGI VESMEHHEMOATTHRIL LINGEXPERRSCAITIO EVENWEHTEOTHRNGET HINGSCURROCSSOFFW ITHAGIOLTHRWASTPA RHOFITIATHRRWHESI DIEIWILLWEREWCONI NPARRDICEANDALLHH RIHAVASILLEDWILLW ECOMEMSOLAVESIWIL LNCTGIVESOUMSNAME WECAUSASCUWILLTOS TOOLOIDOWNORATOPM SCOLLECTINGOFOLAV ESFCOMSAFHERLIFEE WAORIEHEMATHHPIHI

Plaintext to ciphertext key and cycles:

Code: Select all: Input to output key: -------------------------------------------------------- R: 9PUk9PUk9PUk9PUk9PUk9PUk9PUk9PUk9P99U99PP9Uk (3968) Q: %%%%%%%%%%% (11) E: //@K(/@K(/@K(/@K(/@K@ (960) N: ZpW+6ZpW+6ZpW+6ZpW+6ZpW+6ZpW++WZ6Z+W6W6 (3000) G: BB#BB#B#B#B#B#B#B#B##B (612) U: O^DO^DO^DO^DO^DO^DO (816) F: RRRRRRRRRRRR (12) J: ======= (7) D: XtXtXtXttXtXXXtX (264) M: VAVVAVAAVVAVAVAAV (264) T: eeTeTeTeTeeTeTeeT (312) O: GSGSGSGSGSSGG (180) L: YYYYYYYYYY (10) I: F!dFd!Fd!Fd!Fd!dF (468) H: H5LH5LH5LH5LH5LH5L5LHL5H (1026) B: qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq (16) V: MI)MI)IMI)MI)IM)IM)IM)IIM)I (1140) Y: JQJQJQJQJJQ (144) S: 777 (3) C: Nlr\Nlr\Nlr\NrlN\rlN\rr (1088) K: fzzfzfz (40) P: E88E8E8E8E8E8E8EE (364) A: cccccc (6) X: j (1) W: ________ (8) -------------------- Cycle score: 14720

Actual plaintext to ciphertext key and cycles:

Code: Select all: Input to output key: -------------------------------------------------------- I: 9PUk9PUk9PUk9PUk9PUk9PUk9PUk9PUk9P99U99PP9Uk (3968) L: %B%B#B%B#B#B#B%#B%%%%#B#B%%#B##%B (330) K: ////// (6) E: ZpW+6NEZpW+6NEEZpW+6NEZpW+6NENZpW+6NEZpW++WZE6Z+W6EW6E (3542) N: O^D(O^D(O^D(O^D(O^DO^DO (960) G: RRRRRRRRRRRR (12) P: ======= (7) O: X!TdXTdX!TdX!TXTdT!XXd!dXTX (360) B: VVVVVVVVV (9) C: eeeeeeeeee (10) A: G7Sl8G8Sl8GS8l8G8lSl7GS8SG7G8 (30) U: YYYYYYYYYY (10) S: F@KF@K@KF@KF@KFF@ (330) T: HI5LHI5ILHI5LHI5LHI5LHI5LI5LHL5IIHI (1680) M: qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq (16) H: M)M)M)M)M)M)M)M) (420) F: JQJQJQJQJJQ (144) R: tr\tr\tr\tr\trt\trr (546) W: AAAAAAAA (8) D: fzzfzfz (40) V: cccccc (6) X: j (1) Y: ________ (8) -------------------- Cycle score: 12443

by **Jarlve** » Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:37 am

Same method applied to the jrob cipher, it starts with "ILIKEEATINGICECREAMBECAUSEITIS...", as you can see it solved reasonably well:

Code: Select all: Score: 17273.58 Ioc: 0.08276 ILICEEATIANINEC REAMBECNOSEITIS SOHELANNDIDISMO HEHELINIORSTHSA EATISMSRDRBETON THENROCEANOONAI SLEBECAOSEANENR EAMIDTHEMSSTCEL ICIONSNELATOONA LLTOANDSOMETHIS MSTEETNIRESMETR EMODTOLESSINDEC OEREANEATISPREA MOREOLEASISNTHA NSLRHOIAMHOTSAT ENDPSDRACETHEBE STOARDSAITISTHA TTHEAIORAANTESL LTRINECREAMIHAR PEATESTILLBEREB ORMASLEMOAANEIT ILLSOTNIREPORTR ENAMEONMPMHONER BENNOSPPONTALLS LSTNOTAORDDOOMP ESTIANONICENREA MHAAACCRTESTCIA

And on daikon3, a cipher with numerals initially solved by doranchak by collapsing cycles:

Code: Select all: Score: 20187.38 Ioc: 0.08840 LADIACVICTAOSVALLE DATHIRTOEIGHTDSEVE NOTHIRTOTHREESNART HANEHUNDREDTHENTOT HADELEVENOTHENTOSE VENSHESTMENICIATHI RTOEIGHTDFIVEOINFA RTOANESNARTHANEHUN DREDTHENTOTHADEIGH TOTHIRTOEIGHTSHEST LAKEMERROESSATHIRT OEIGHTDTHIRTOTHREE OFARTOEIGHTSNARTHA NEHUNDREDTHENTOTHA DTHIRTEENOFIFTOFAU RSHESTSANFRANCISCA THIRTOSEVENDFARTOS EVENONINETEENSNART HANEHUNDREDTHENTOT HADTHENTOSEVENOTHE NTOFIVESHESTRADIAC

by **Jarlve** » Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:11 am

For the 340 cycles are collapsed as such. Note that its ioc is only 0.045 and that there is no bigram peak at period 19. I think that it means that either cycles were far from correctly collapsed or that period 19 is random:

Code: Select all: VWQRXQMTSPFWNVAGP IXUOANDSCLRABMQTL OKSFQUJRALALNNGVJ IXXRMQPMTSXDUUQQG CMQUGMHPFEDSUHKPR XPQMDQDBMPWPDRGCA NEUQHSCGJFCATAGNF AAGJTHNDUCIRGUHNM PBQUYURQGDOFKHYKQ BGQJTUMJUDXRBDOKB JUQREMWFCROXYVQQD GBFQQJFMEVKQAUHOD GYMIKNUIFEDOFACPQ QADIMTEGKYAFTKMUU KOCWMSKMWWRTJREBU FFASGOQADXMATQHAG QFVUNWYWBUDQLOFLN UULLWGLFSDIVVRALX FDPPLBRMOCRDOMBWF RQCVIXPIGRDPHFQCU

With the following plaintext to ciphertext key and cycles:

Code: Select all: Input to output key: -------------------------------------------------------- V: HTHTTTHTH (60) W: E1CE1CE1CCC (126) Q: RlKMlRKMRlKMRKlRMKlRMRlKMRlMK (1368) R: >YZ7/>YZ7/Y>Z/7Y>Z (660) X: ppppppppppp (110) M: ^*^*9t^*9^t*9^t*9^t* (728) T: VfVVfVfVVf (84) S: P%:3P%:3P (120) P: kd8dk8dkd8kdk8 (216) F: |c|c|c|c||cc|cc|c|c| (480) N: L#L##L#L#LL (112) A: G(.G((G.(G.(G..(.G( (396) G: 2z2z22z2z2z2z2z2zz (420) I: NSNSNNSNS (84) U: ++++++++++++++++++++++++ (552) O: BBBBBBBBBBBB (132) D: OOFFOFOFOFOFFFOFOFOO (364) C: D_D;X_D;X_D; (224) L: W)W)W))WW)W (112) B: <-<-<-<-<<- (144) K: y4y4y4y44y4 (144) J: UJUJUJUJU (112) H: j&qj@A&qA (30) E: 5555555 (42) Y: b6b6b6 (40) -------------------- Cycle score: 6860

by **Jarlve** » Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:21 pm

Collapse homophones produces a near perfect result for smokie1 (the version without wildcards):

Code: Select all: UDFUMWTPQWPMMKRNG HFPKRMPJWMGJTKRXE SCRJEWWNJTWEPNWPI JKREDRRGHDJKSCRJY RCVVTGYBDEWNWVTKM WKYKEEJTWYYGUDFUM WTPQWPMMPFCDRSSCR JYRCVKEKNICNKRXDU CFSCVRPNKTPUUGCFK RNKEWFGVTPJWAWFKJ KEJTPJXKFMUDJPEUW MMCRNWTWMUNWTWMUN WCTRCCTGWPTUDFUMW TPQWPMMKRNGWGWYSC RJYRCVKEKJESPGCFR KXTJGCDAWXCJNWHMC VKRXHMCVKRXNGNKRS KEKJJCNCFFCVCFBDE JJTWWRSCEJKNWTWMU NWGWPTUDFUMWTPQWO

Into the substitution solver:

Code: Select all: Score: 22145.11 Ioc: 0.06068 PURPLEHAVEALLINMY BRAINLATELYTHINGS DONTSEEMTHESAMEAC TINSUNNYBUTIDONTS NOWWHYSOUSEMEWHIL EISISSTHESSYPURPL EHAVEALLAROUNDDON TSNOWISIMCOMINGUP ORDOWNAMIHAPPYORI NMISERYWHATEVERIT ISTHATGIRLPUTASPE LLONMEHELPMEHELPM EOHNOOHYEAHPURPLE HAVEALLINMYEYESDO NTSNOWISITSDAYORN IGHTYOUVEGOTMEBLO WINGBLOWINGMYMIND ISITTOMORROWOROUS TTHEENDOSTIMEHELP MEYEAHPURPLEHAVEB

However, as encoding randomness increases, the function becomes increasingly unreliable to the point where it fails. This point needs to be pushed back as far as possible.

by **smokie treats** » Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:55 pm

Yes, we did discuss this idea a long time ago. I called it merging symbols based on how they cycle together. It is interesting that the period 19 spike doesn't show up. I haven't checked it yet. But here are five messages, all the same plaintext and with one polyphone, 0%, 10%, 20%, 30% and 40% random symbol selection. And transposition period is 20, the inscription rectangle is 17 x 20. I would like to see what happens.

A. 0%; spike at period 20 with 60 bigram matches

22 11 20 1 23 46 18 50 56 28 12 51 24 44 9 34 13
14 29 5 30 6 16 35 36 15 11 38 12 25 57 11 52 53
22 42 23 7 37 13 24 14 54 26 50 32 45 27 47 34 15
35 21 39 11 2 20 40 41 8 26 7 36 25 21 3 38 11
33 19 37 18 4 17 22 44 1 32 51 2 12 3 23 31 13
34 55 11 14 15 5 61 19 24 58 4 56 11 18 54 27 55
52 28 16 25 48 29 53 60 12 39 11 50 22 10 13 33 23
49 24 46 25 11 40 47 1 48 20 43 51 54 45 22 30 23
26 62 57 14 31 15 49 35 44 52 36 41 11 12 53 45 11
46 28 8 24 47 13 61 29 25 32 19 44 21 11 33 32 45
14 44 50 51 6 15 30 31 62 38 22 52 39 59 11 12 33
13 40 14 45 41 20 21 15 2 11 3 38 55 37 23 44 24
48 32 4 53 49 34 50 7 11 1 45 35 12 56 54 58 18
46 13 28 51 39 29 20 52 8 21 27 5 53 14 9 10 15
33 25 42 47 17 9 6 48 40 11 50 11 2 49 12 59 5
3 58 46 61 30 13 41 55 19 14 51 16 36 20 22 37 38
47 21 39 31 23 24 34 11 40 32 35 4 7 10 1 18 44
52 19 17 53 15 45 28 29 59 2 50 43 54 51 33 3 4
30 18 25 11 11 16 42 36 37 52 31 22 32 44 11 8 20
12 55 34 28 23 29 48 53 58 1 24 25 21 6 30 13 62

B. 10%; 61 matches

22 11 20 1 25 46 18 50 56 28 12 51 24 44 9 34 13
14 29 5 30 6 16 35 35 15 11 38 12 25 57 11 52 53
22 42 23 7 37 13 24 14 54 26 50 32 45 27 47 34 15
35 21 39 11 2 20 40 41 8 26 7 36 23 21 3 38 11
33 19 37 18 4 17 22 44 1 32 51 2 15 3 23 31 13
34 55 30 14 14 5 62 19 24 58 4 56 13 18 54 26 55
52 28 16 25 48 29 53 60 12 39 11 50 22 10 13 32 23
49 11 46 25 11 40 47 1 48 20 43 51 54 45 22 28 23
26 62 57 14 30 15 49 35 44 52 36 41 11 12 53 45 11
46 30 7 24 47 13 61 29 25 32 19 44 21 11 33 32 45
14 45 52 51 6 15 30 31 62 38 22 52 39 59 11 12 33
13 40 13 45 39 20 21 15 2 11 3 38 55 36 11 44 24
48 33 4 53 49 34 50 7 11 1 45 35 12 56 54 58 18
46 13 28 51 39 29 20 52 8 21 27 5 53 14 9 10 15
33 25 42 47 17 9 6 46 40 11 50 11 2 48 12 59 5
3 58 46 61 30 13 41 55 19 14 51 16 36 20 22 37 38
47 21 39 31 23 24 34 11 40 32 35 4 7 10 1 18 45
52 19 16 53 15 45 28 29 58 2 53 43 54 51 33 3 4
30 19 25 11 11 16 42 37 37 52 31 22 32 44 11 8 20
12 55 34 28 23 29 48 53 58 1 24 25 21 6 30 13 62

C. 20%; 65 matches

22 13 20 1 23 46 18 50 56 28 12 51 25 44 9 34 13
11 29 6 30 6 16 35 36 15 11 38 12 25 57 11 52 53
22 42 24 7 37 13 25 14 54 26 50 32 45 27 47 34 15
35 21 39 11 2 21 40 41 8 26 7 34 22 21 4 39 11
33 19 37 18 4 17 22 44 1 32 51 2 12 3 25 31 13
34 55 30 14 15 5 61 19 24 58 4 56 11 18 54 27 55
52 28 16 25 48 29 53 60 12 39 23 51 22 10 13 33 23
49 24 48 25 11 40 47 1 48 20 43 51 54 45 22 30 25
27 62 57 14 31 15 49 35 44 52 36 41 11 12 53 45 11
46 28 7 24 47 13 61 29 25 32 19 44 21 11 32 33 45
14 44 50 50 6 15 30 30 62 40 23 52 39 59 11 13 33
13 40 14 45 41 20 21 13 2 11 4 38 55 37 23 44 24
47 32 4 53 49 34 50 7 11 2 45 37 15 56 54 59 18
46 14 28 51 39 30 20 52 8 21 27 5 53 12 9 10 15
33 25 42 48 17 10 6 48 40 11 50 11 2 49 11 59 5
3 58 46 61 30 11 40 55 19 14 51 16 36 20 22 37 38
47 21 39 11 23 24 34 11 38 33 35 2 7 10 1 19 44
51 19 17 53 15 45 28 29 59 1 50 43 55 51 33 3 4
30 18 25 11 11 16 42 36 37 52 29 22 32 44 11 8 20
12 55 34 11 23 29 48 51 58 3 24 25 21 5 30 13 62

D. 30%; 64 matches

22 11 21 1 23 46 18 50 57 28 12 51 24 44 10 34 13
14 28 5 30 6 16 35 36 15 15 38 12 25 57 11 52 50
22 42 23 7 37 15 25 12 54 26 53 32 45 27 47 35 15
35 21 39 11 2 21 41 41 8 26 7 36 25 21 4 38 11
33 19 36 19 4 17 22 44 1 33 51 2 12 3 23 30 13
34 55 11 14 15 5 62 19 11 58 4 56 12 18 54 27 54
52 28 16 25 48 31 53 60 14 38 25 50 22 10 12 33 23
49 24 48 25 11 40 47 1 48 20 43 51 54 45 22 30 23
26 62 57 11 29 15 49 35 44 52 36 41 11 12 53 45 31
46 28 8 24 47 13 61 30 23 32 19 45 21 11 32 32 45
14 44 50 50 6 15 30 31 62 38 22 52 39 59 11 11 33
13 39 12 45 41 20 21 15 4 11 3 38 54 37 23 44 24
48 32 4 53 49 34 50 8 11 1 44 35 12 56 54 58 18
48 14 30 51 39 29 20 51 8 21 27 5 53 11 9 10 15
33 25 42 48 17 9 6 48 38 11 50 11 2 49 12 59 5
3 59 46 61 30 13 41 55 18 14 52 16 36 20 25 37 38
47 21 39 31 23 25 34 29 40 32 35 4 8 10 1 18 44
52 19 17 52 13 44 28 11 59 4 50 42 54 51 33 4 4
30 18 25 11 11 16 42 36 37 52 31 22 32 44 29 8 21
12 55 34 28 11 29 48 53 58 1 24 23 21 6 29 13 61

E. 40%; 66 matches

22 11 20 1 23 46 18 50 57 28 12 51 24 45 9 34 12
14 28 5 29 6 16 37 36 15 11 38 15 11 56 11 52 53
22 42 11 8 37 13 24 15 54 26 50 32 45 27 47 35 15
35 21 39 11 1 21 40 41 8 26 7 36 25 21 2 40 11
32 19 37 18 2 17 22 44 1 32 53 2 12 1 23 31 13
36 55 11 12 15 6 61 18 24 58 4 57 15 18 54 27 55
52 28 16 25 48 29 53 60 12 41 22 50 22 10 13 33 23
49 24 47 22 11 40 47 1 47 20 43 53 54 45 22 30 23
26 62 56 14 31 15 47 35 45 52 36 41 11 12 50 44 11
46 29 8 23 46 15 61 29 24 32 19 44 21 11 33 32 45
11 45 50 53 6 15 30 31 62 38 22 52 39 59 11 13 33
13 40 14 45 39 20 21 15 2 11 3 38 55 37 11 44 24
47 33 4 53 47 37 50 7 11 4 45 35 12 56 54 58 19
46 11 31 51 39 31 20 50 7 20 27 5 53 14 9 10 15
33 25 43 47 17 9 6 46 39 11 50 11 2 49 12 58 5
2 58 46 61 30 13 41 54 19 14 51 17 37 20 11 37 38
47 21 39 31 25 24 34 28 40 32 35 3 7 10 1 19 44
50 19 17 53 15 45 28 29 59 2 52 43 54 51 32 3 1
30 19 25 11 11 16 42 35 37 52 31 11 32 45 30 8 21
12 55 34 28 25 28 46 53 58 1 24 25 21 6 30 11 62

by **smokie treats** » Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:57 pm

Mr lowe wrote:Smokie my thoughts are not with a deliberate pivot implementation by z. Because i dont think he would give a clue or direction and i dont think his skill set was much more than basic training and or books. my untrained opinion only. oh and if it is a clue or direction its not a very good one.. it has not helped.... my brain hurts.

Good point. My brain hurts too.

by **smokie treats** » Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:00 pm

Jarlve, you are really working hard lately. I liked the story about Juana Barraza. What a very strange person.

Learning / skill curves are not always smooth. Sometimes they spike. It seems like your curve is really spiking right now!

by **smokie treats** » Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:18 pm

Trifid + Homophonic

A few weeks ago I made a spreadsheet that generated trifid + homophonic cryptograms.

Bifid and trifid are fractionation ciphers but also are very simple route transpositions. I was wondering about trifid because the letters are fractionated into only three digits instead of five for bifid, and wondering if I could create a period 15 / 29 bend.

I didn't get that far. I encoded chunks of 45 letters to try to make period 15 repeats. It was easy to do with about 50-55 symbols, but very difficult with 60+ symbols, even with one homophonic polyphone.

Without much discussion, I would have to say that a traditional trifid transposition is not possible. Perhaps some other fractionation with a different transposition maybe, but not the classical.

Zodiackillersite.com

Route Transposition and Phenomenon

Re: Route Transposition and Phenomenon

Re: Route Transposition and Phenomenon

Re: Route Transposition and Phenomenon

Re: Route Transposition and Phenomenon

Re: Route Transposition and Phenomenon

Re: Route Transposition and Phenomenon

Re: Route Transposition and Phenomenon

Re: Route Transposition and Phenomenon

Re: Route Transposition and Phenomenon

Re: Route Transposition and Phenomenon

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