Route Transposition and Phenomenon

[smokie treats]

I like your digraph chart maker and encoder.

Some thoughts. I really like digraph in general, not necessarily for the 340. It is fast and easy to encode, you can make some mistakes without wrecking the entire message, and it is slow to decode. It was a very popular military cipher a century ago.

You don't need a digraph chart, obviously, to encode a digraph cipher. But charts can be generated from a keyword, random, or different types of digraph ciphers to help better visualize what the chart or cipher would have a propensity to do. Digraph ciphers can be compared by comparing their charts. My encoder is separate from my chart making spreadsheets for interchangeability.

I also brought up poly literal transposition, something that we briefly discussed a long time ago, and I think that you wrote some computer programs on it. I am trying to think of ways to create messages with period 15 / 19 and / or pivots.

Diagonal transcription of two letters at a time + homophonic with a dominate period 2, simple and possible. Maybe also a dominate period 5, which would become period 29 / 39.

Digraph + poly literal transposition + homophonic, maybe but maybe start simple with the above and consider digraph later. I don't see how digraph could create a dominate period 5, but maybe it is possible. I it though because I could see someone thinking to encode two letters at a time, and then also transpose two symbols at a time. A simple work combination.

Sorry about thinking in two directions at once.

[smokie treats]

Here is a zoom in of the upper left corner of my four square chart, where you can see the keywords DINOSAUR and FLAMINGO.

digraph.21.png

[Jarlve]

If it is not any trouble could you throw up a polyliteral transposition + homophonic substitution cipher without any further complications? I would like to test if the transposition solver could solve it.

[smokie treats]

Plaintext

S I G N I N G T H E D I V E R T O
G O O N H E F O L L O W E D H I M
R O U N D T H E V E S S E L S S T
E R N T H E S A N D O N T H E O T
H E R S I D E W A S H I G H A N D
O N E C O U L D C L I M B O N B O
A R D B U T L I S T E R S H R A N
K F R O M T H E D A R K A L L E Y
W A Y T H A T L E D T O T H E E N
G I N E R O O M F O R A L L T H A
T H E W E N T I N A N D S A W T H
E D I V E R H A D O P E N E D T H
E J A M B E D D O O R W H E N H E
R E A C H E D T H E L E D G E A F
L A S H F R O M T H E O T H E R S
E L E C T R I C L A M P P I E R C
E D T H E G L O O M A N D H E T R
I E D T O F O R G E T H I S T H R
O B B I N G H E A D A N D L O O K
E D A B O U T S P A R K L I N G B

Inscription rectangle

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34
35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68
69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102
103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136
137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170
171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204
205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238
239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272
273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306
307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340

Transcription rectangle ( matrix )

1 2 35 36 69 70 103 104 137 138 171 172 205 206 239 240 273
274 307 308 3 4 37 38 71 72 105 106 139 140 173 174 207 208
241 242 275 276 309 310 5 6 39 40 73 74 107 108 141 142 175
176 209 210 243 244 277 278 311 312 7 8 41 42 75 76 109 110
143 144 177 178 211 212 245 246 279 280 313 314 9 10 43 44 77
78 111 112 145 146 179 180 213 214 247 248 281 282 315 316 11 12
45 46 79 80 113 114 147 148 181 182 215 216 249 250 283 284 317
318 13 14 47 48 81 82 115 116 149 150 183 184 217 218 251 252
285 286 319 320 15 16 49 50 83 84 117 118 151 152 185 186 219
220 253 254 287 288 321 322 17 18 51 52 85 86 119 120 153 154
187 188 221 222 255 256 289 290 323 324 19 20 53 54 87 88 121
122 155 156 189 190 223 224 257 258 291 292 325 326 21 22 55 56
89 90 123 124 157 158 191 192 225 226 259 260 293 294 327 328 23
24 57 58 91 92 125 126 159 160 193 194 227 228 261 262 295 296
329 330 25 26 59 60 93 94 127 128 161 162 195 196 229 230 263
264 297 298 331 332 27 28 61 62 95 96 129 130 163 164 197 198
231 232 265 266 299 300 333 334 29 30 63 64 97 98 131 132 165
166 199 200 233 234 267 268 301 302 335 336 31 32 65 66 99 100
133 134 167 168 201 202 235 236 269 270 303 304 337 338 33 34 67
68 101 102 135 136 169 170 203 204 237 238 271 272 305 306 339 340

All homophonic key

A 1 2 3
B 4 5 6
C 7 8 9
D 10 11 12
E 13 14 15 16 17
F 18 19 20
G 21 22 23
H 24 25 26
I 27 28 29
J 30 31
K 32 33
L 34 35 36
M 37 38 39
N 40 41 42
O 43 44 45
P 46 47
Q
R 48 49 50
S 51 52 53
T 54 55 56
U 57 58
V 59 60
W 61 62 63
X
Y 64 65
Z

Message

51 27 48 43 24 13 1 49 61 2 54 26 14 30 34 2 14
10 44 4 21 40 57 40 50 53 11 5 64 55 15 62 1 39
52 26 56 24 6 28 29 42 12 54 27 10 58 55 25 2 17
40 4 13 18 50 14 22 41 23 21 55 26 15 16 63 35 28
56 36 55 29 10 12 45 37 34 43 24 17 25 15 59 14 3
51 52 56 15 10 42 1 44 45 54 26 43 39 2 11 12 27
51 51 24 28 13 49 55 44 40 10 49 62 17 45 3 41 1
42 60 13 14 35 22 25 52 26 56 24 53 2 25 15 55 26
11 25 12 36 49 55 51 52 1 40 50 3 16 17 62 56 41
25 13 50 14 54 43 44 45 23 54 15 10 43 42 32 40 21
26 15 17 48 53 15 49 29 33 14 44 43 50 41 42 16 19
48 27 40 11 28 16 2 34 17 16 12 10 3 41 24 56 25
8 43 44 37 14 49 59 16 8 26 9 54 56 45 5 45 16
20 17 51 57 34 56 24 44 44 50 25 13 11 50 29 18 44
58 54 44 36 1 42 12 7 14 10 38 19 2 10 55 26 9
34 49 22 52 46 35 45 12 43 36 27 3 50 43 48 43 47
15 35 1 39 16 55 2 48 63 16 41 54 37 6 32 3 1
34 13 40 14 10 46 47 24 27 33 36 11 25 25 15 45 42
34 35 36 55 16 12 23 15 29 14 53 56 27 40 29 37 44
54 4 45 14 65 24 2 55 26 3 20 50 8 26 48 21 5

Results in high count of period 1 repeats sometimes, and period 20 sometimes. This one has a spike at both.

[Jarlve]

Thanks smokie.

While the transposition solver did not solve your cipher it should be able to solve it easily since I solved your cipher manually with just one operation: period row order(utp,x:2,y:170,p:10). The transposition solver has issues and needs to be reprogrammed at one point. While limiting the number of operations it can use it was able to solve it though, it just came in while writing this post.

I think that polyliteral transposition and multiple inscription rectangles are more of the same and uncomplicated they should not be a problem to solve.

Code: Select all

Score: 24659.03 Ioc: 0.06907

SIGNINGTHEDIVERTO
GOONHEFOLLOWEDHIM
ROUNDTHEVESSELSST
ERNTHESANDONTHEOT
HERSIDEWASHIGHAND
ONECOULDCLIMBONBO
ARDBUTLISTERSHRAN
SFROMTHEDARSALLEY
WASTHATLEDTOTHEEN
GINEROOMFORALLTHA
THEWENTINANDSAWTH
EDIVERHADOPENEDTH
ECAMBEDDOORWHENHE
REACHEDTHELEDGEAF
LASHFROMTHEOTHERS
ELECTRICLAMPPIERC
EDTHEGLOOMANDHETR
IEDTOFORGETHISTHR
OBBINGHEADANDLOOK
EDABOUTSPARKLINGB


Code: Select all

Transposition iterations: 1504/3000
Score: 24644.33 Ioc: 0.06900

Period row order(UTP,X:2,Y:170,P:10)

SIGNINGTHEDIVERTO
GOONHEFOLLOWEDHIM
ROUNDTHEVESSELSST
ERNTHESANDONTHEOT
HERSIDEWASHIGHAND
ONECOULDCLIMBONBO
ARDBUTLISTERSHRAN
SFROMTHEDARSALLEY
SAYTHATLEDTOTHEEN
GINEROOMFORALLTHA
THEWENTINANDSAWTH
EDIVERHADOPENEDTH
ECAMBEDDOORWHENHE
REACHEDTHELEDGEAF
LASHFROMTHEOTHERS
ELECTRICLAMPPIERC
EDTHEGLOOMANDHETR
IEDTOFORGETHISTHR
OBBINGHEADANDLOOK
EDABOUTSPARKLINGB


[smokie treats]

Hoax Discussion

Sometimes I also considered that z340 is probably just a hoax. But to be honest: I don't like that idea since I want to read "the secret message that explains it all" and so I put the hoax option aside in the past. That is one of the reasons why I never give it a try to find a construction method for a hoax that behaves like z340.
But hey...why not? Maybe it is a good idea to view z340 in a different light. I have some ideas how to make a hoax that has cycles and repeated ngrams. I'll give it a try.

I think that we should debate this

We should start a new thread when someone has an idea.

Largo, I would be very interested in hearing your ideas about a system that can create cycles and repeated ngrams.

To prove or disprove it is a hoax, there would have to be some rules similar to the rules uses to prove that a solution to a cryptogram is the true solution. He would have had to use a system that has some degree of predictability. We would have to be able to define the system so that we could predict what symbol or small group of options for symbols would appear at any particular position. We could describe a hypothetical system, and then test it against the message.

I have been thinking about a grid with symbols in it. Take a route through the grid that has some repetitive qualities, but not perfectly repetitive. Maybe a zig zag route or something like bouncing the position within the grid against the sides of a grid. Then you have to have a route to take within the 340 itself, probably left right top bottom.

For starters, you have 63 symbols. You could have a grid that is 9 x 7 or 7 x 9. But already that will not work because a couple of repeat themselves in doubles ++ and qq. You would have to have a grid that has more than 63 cells in it, with some symbols occurring in more than one cell. Something like this could explain prime phobia.

[smokie treats]

I was thinking about a grid 20 wide x whatever deep. Populate the grid, each cell a random symbol ( number between 1 and 63 for a spreadsheet ). Then move through the grid column by column, left to right, and select a random symbol ( number ) for each column.

How deep would the grid have to be? Here is the Zodiac 340 re-drafted into 20 columns, and highlighting the period 19 repeats. Amazing the diagonal lines. At bottom is the number of different symbols in each column. The numbers are pretty uniform, but column 18 has 17 different symbols. So you would have to have a grid that is 20 x 17 if all of the cells were filled.

No picture I cannot upload for some reason, so here is the count of different symbols by column:

13 12 14 14 14 13 15 16 14 16 13 15 16 15 15 16 13 17 14 14

[Largo]

How deep would the grid have to be? Here is the Zodiac 340 re-drafted into 20 columns, and highlighting the period 19 repeats. Amazing the diagonal lines.

Smokie, I have problems to understand how to reproduce the diagonal lines. Do you have a dropbox/google drive/icloud account for uploading the picture? That would be great (I can not upload images neither, I think that is because of the forums software update).

I am still working on z340-like hoax recipes and I have some fresh ideas and first results. My method produces lots of pivots, lots of cycles but way too much bigrams. So it is just a "proof of concept". Maybe I will find out that my method is complete nonsense.

This week I am busy with tax declaration and other things but I think that I can continue my work on z340 next week.

[smokie treats]

Largo, I upload all of my images to this site so everything is in one place. For some reason I cannot do it now. But here is a link to the same image, 4th post down.

viewtopic.php?f=81&t=2617&start=1310

Good luck with your taxes. I am thinking about making peace with the 340.

[Largo]

But here is a link to the same image, 4th post down.

Thank you very much!

Good luck with your taxes.

Thanks. I have a new theory: Zodiac is still alive and is working in germany. He is creating all the tax laws to torture the people. He says: "You guys think z340 was complicated? Try this!"

I am thinking about making peace with the 340.

This would definitively be a pity since you have contributed so much! But it is totally understandable. Sometimes I am thinking the same but then I have new ideas to test. I am one of those who can easily gets obsessed by things like z340. So I always try to make a pause and do other things (again obsessively ). At the moment I use the z340 to learn new things like statistics, general cipher techniques and new programming languages. So I think I am controlling z340 and not the other way around.
Will you still read the forum if you decide to stop you work on z340? I think I have dug out something interesting concerning your hoax hypothesis and I would be glad to hear your opinion.