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Re: Route Transposition and Phenomenon

PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:46 pm
by Mr lowe
Hi Jarlvie this is one of them. I will dig out the other I have misplaced it.

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Re: Route Transposition and Phenomenon

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:34 am
by Jarlve
smokie treats wrote:This is kind of important for making messages. I want to simulate the 340 as much as possible, and if I pack 63 symbols evenly ( least efficient ) into + / - 23 plaintext on the key, then I get more bigram repeats but also more symbols with count of 1. If I make the key efficient, then low frequency plaintext will have fewer symbols. The bigram repeats goes down, but the number of symbols with count of 1 goes down. So it is a delicate balance.

One simple way to emulate/simulate the repeat potential of the 340 or any cipher without reusing the exact same frequency table is to match the raw ioc closely. It is 2236 for the 340.

Here's how the calculate the ioc:

Code: Select all
340 frequencies + ioc calculation:

- first numeric value for each symbol is its frequency
- second numeric value is its frequency minus 1
- symbols with a frequency of 1 get a value of 0 because they cannot repeat

+: 24 * 23 = 552
B: 12 * 11 = 132
p: 11 * 10 = 110
|: 10 * 9 = 90
O: 10 * 9 = 90
c: 10 * 9 = 90
F: 10 * 9 = 90
2: 9 * 8 = 72
z: 9 * 8 = 72
R: 8 * 7 = 56
l: 7 * 6 = 42
(: 7 * 6 = 42
K: 7 * 6 = 42
M: 7 * 6 = 42
5: 7 * 6 = 42
^: 6 * 5 = 30
V: 6 * 5 = 30
L: 6 * 5 = 30
G: 6 * 5 = 30
W: 6 * 5 = 30
.: 6 * 5 = 30
<: 6 * 5 = 30
*: 6 * 5 = 30
4: 6 * 5 = 30
k: 5 * 4 = 20
T: 5 * 4 = 20
d: 5 * 4 = 20
N: 5 * 4 = 20
#: 5 * 4 = 20
): 5 * 4 = 20
y: 5 * 4 = 20
U: 5 * 4 = 20
-: 5 * 4 = 20
C: 5 * 4 = 20
H: 4 * 3 = 12
>: 4 * 3 = 12
D: 4 * 3 = 12
Y: 4 * 3 = 12
f: 4 * 3 = 12
Z: 4 * 3 = 12
J: 4 * 3 = 12
S: 4 * 3 = 12
8: 4 * 3 = 12
9: 4 * 3 = 12
t: 4 * 3 = 12
E: 3 * 2 = 6
P: 3 * 2 = 6
1: 3 * 2 = 6
7: 3 * 2 = 6
_: 3 * 2 = 6
/: 3 * 2 = 6
;: 3 * 2 = 6
b: 3 * 2 = 6
6: 3 * 2 = 6
%: 2 * 1 = 2
:: 2 * 1 = 2
3: 2 * 1 = 2
j: 2 * 1 = 2
&: 2 * 1 = 2
q: 2 * 1 = 2
X: 2 * 1 = 2
A: 2 * 1 = 2
@: 1 * 0 = 0

summed total: 2236 (the raw ioc)
normalized: 0.0193996182543814 = 2236 / (340 * 339)

Re: Route Transposition and Phenomenon

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:37 am
by Jarlve
Mr lowe wrote:Hi Jarlvie this is one of them. I will dig out the other I have misplaced it.

Thanks for sharing, what kind of pattern did you follow?

Re: Route Transposition and Phenomenon

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:45 am
by smokie treats
Hey thanks for sharing the raw ioc information. The values used to calculate the raw ioc are the same ones that I have been trying to match. I will add that to my encoder and find a way to use it.

Re: Route Transposition and Phenomenon

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:50 am
by Mr lowe
I think its this method I will check it tonight I made two of them similar. odd ""COLUMNS"' then even COLUMNS then each COLUMN up one period from the next. then read from top down.

Re: Route Transposition and Phenomenon

PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:43 am
by Jarlve
smokie treats wrote:The message is a recipe for tacos. I would like to see your solution. But I wouldn't be too humbled. After all, you did write a computer program that solves homophonic substitution ciphers with multiple polyphones. That's pretty amazing.

It's a beatiful message. I developed the polyphone solver near the end of 2016 and ran it with an external hill-climber that distributes a given number of polyphones (extra letters) over the symbols. After days of running it found the following plaintext as a best result, you can see that it is in the right direction. It just is a very hard plaintext.

Code: Select all
31/12/2016

GRANDSASHEWILLINS
TOMISSDESSIONTHEP
ROVEDHEEUWUBTCRNS
HESAIDGETHERBROWN
BETHATTONWIRNFORB
ITWASLABOUTOUTTOW
HIMMEDIATEDATTEND
ASTURESPELLSOUGHB
LACHINGNOREANTSHE
RTOSAYSTILLYACOOW
LBTPRONGAGEITWEAR
STWENTHEDDEDTHEAD
ARITIENECTITTEDRE
DOLLONWHOTHEDTOSA
YISPOSTHEDHEDREDT
HAULIBERIENCEHEST
RESNOTEGGERSTHATG
REENTAEONANINTHER
ALTERNATEOFLAHEPO
SSITTHEDRAWINANCI

Re: Route Transposition and Phenomenon

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:28 pm
by doranchak
Briefly hijacking this thread: Can you guys give a second opinion for a solve of the Albany cipher?

http://www.zodiackiller.net/viewtopic.p ... 742#p52742

Re: Route Transposition and Phenomenon

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:44 pm
by Jarlve
Sure doranchak,

Can you share a ciphertext and solution? The thread confuses me.

Re: Route Transposition and Phenomenon

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:47 pm
by doranchak
I'll post it there.

Re: Route Transposition and Phenomenon

PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:34 pm
by smokie treats
Spreadsheet Encoder Statistics

I briefly suspended my digraph - transposition - homophonic message making. I made 200 of these messages, and 200 transposition - homophonic messages, but realized that I may be comparing apples to oranges instead of apples to apples because I was guessing with my encoder variables to try to emulate 340 stats.

So I re-tooled my encoder so that I can encode 16 messages at a time. The encoder works like this. It makes a key, depending on letter count, on four different efficiency settings. 1 = most efficient to 4 = least efficient diffusion.

encoder.stats.1.png

And I can make the spreadsheet map a polyphone ( or more ) to 0 to any count of highest frequency plaintext.

I made 16 messages for each of the Jarlve 100 plaintext library ( I changed message 24 because it was exactly the same as message 23 ). Four different efficiency settings * four polyphone settings = 16 messages * 100 = 1600 messages. All perfect cycles.

Here are the stats.

1. Top table shows the polyphone symbol count. X axis is the key efficiency, Y axis is the number of highest frequency letters that I mapped the one polyphone to. For the bottom row, I did not use a polyphone. Then the next row up, I mapped one polyphone to the two highest frequency letters. And so on. The Zodiac 340 has the + symbol with count of 24. Yellow shaded areas show the key efficiency and polyphone mapping match up ranges, mean + standard deviation, that the 340 would fall in.

2. Second table shows the RAW IOC calculated without including the polyphone. The bottom row does not reflect a polyphone. Even though 1200 messages for the top three rows had one polyphone, the existence of the polyphone did change the stats. The 340 RAW IOC is 1684 if you do not include the + symbol. IOC for a homophonic substitution message is IOC for a homophonic substitution message I guess.

3. The third table, one cell, shows the count of period 1 bigram repeats in the plaintext, which would become period x repeats in a transposed message.

4. The fourth table shows the count of period 1 bigram repeats after diffusion. The yellow shaded cells show that it is easier, by far, to make messages with 340 period 15 / 19 stats with an efficiency setting of 3 or 4. But the 340 is at the higher end of the setting 3 range. It is much easier to match 340 stats with the setting 4, a very inefficient key.

EDITED:
encoder.2.png

5. The fifth and bottom table shows the average of the period 1 repeat probability scores. This is the one that I am interested in because the 340 period 15 / 19 score is 16.8. More efficient keys cause more diffusion, but there will be some repeats that drive up the score because there are not very many symbols mapping to lower frequency plaintext. Like this one. The idea regarding digraph - transposition - homophonic is that the digraph diffusion makes it so that the homophonic key has 26 letters to encode, not typically 22-24. The 63 symbols would be distributed more evenly, making more of these, driving up the score. The 340 period 15 / 19 repeat score of 16.8 ranks 2nd of all periods. The idea is that a digraph - transposition - homophonic will have higher ranking scores. He could have drafted the message vertically in 15 or 19 columns, encoded with a digraph cipher, then re-drafted into 17 columns and then encoded homophonic.

EDIT: The more efficient keys make messages that have higher average period 1 repeat probability scores because it causes more repeats like this one.

340.29.42.png

So any time that I want to try a new cipher, I need to do this for the cipher type first, so that I know what settings to use.

Unfortunately, there is no cell that is shaded yellow in all of the tables. But standard deviation only covers about 2/3 of the possible range. Efficiency setting 3 with one polyphone mapping to 3 plaintext comes the closest, but the standard deviation range for repeats still barely reaches 340 stats.