Route Transposition and Phenomenon

[smokie treats]

Hey smokie,

Thank you. The last cipher was one with 2 seperate encodings, one from position 1 to 170 and the other from 171 to 340. I think it was reflected reasonable well in your stats.

Here's another one. This one is solvable, I wonder if anyone could figure out what I did.

Code: Select all

1 2 3 4 1 5 6 7 8 1 9 10 11 12 13 6 14
15 16 11 17 16 18 16 19 15 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30 31 12 32 33 34 35 36 5 37 11 38 39 14 2
23 16 40 41 42 43 15 30 29 11 12 30 4 44 15 29 4
1 4 12 15 3 22 12 15 45 21 2 11 29 9 16 30 13
7 22 22 11 7 29 1 11 24 16 4 46 47 12 5 48 49
31 50 51 37 52 18 30 53 4 37 51 30 54 1 10 41 43
32 55 1 3 8 5 49 9 56 13 48 17 5 20 34 33 57
58 24 4 19 44 59 27 33 60 28 53 12 5 30 52 4 33
37 5 56 13 26 11 1 5 31 61 4 45 54 15 39 7 55
47 36 24 23 9 36 12 38 15 43 62 40 17 11 49 34 32
6 9 13 59 61 26 15 29 30 39 16 5 52 5 22 36 63
28 54 50 4 1 19 33 40 29 22 24 46 30 46 55 59 61
12 15 2 29 16 9 39 10 18 41 7 37 58 2 45 8 27
35 34 32 49 22 11 57 23 11 52 16 15 44 48 39 5 62
5 43 1 42 30 26 43 15 47 49 29 13 12 36 4 11 5
1 56 45 1 38 36 19 15 48 58 37 36 44 10 24 41 26
23 30 20 12 9 33 11 28 17 41 39 1 52 34 39 14 16
52 45 31 35 16 30 52 4 15 57 54 60 50 51 33 55 12
13 58 8 59 4 11 25 10 7 12 53 4 11 32 30 29 47


You encoded RLBT? No cycles start on position 1, but a lot end on position 340. Stops are the same as starts when rotated 180 degrees. Seems like there are a lot more stops in row 20 then there are starts in row 1, so the stops are actually starts and the starts stops.

[Jarlve]

Here's another one. A mystery cipher with a randomized plaintext.

What do you mean by "randomized"? A jumble of plaintext letters with no readable words? Or a randomly selected message?

Plaintext p1 where the letters have swapped places at random for so many iterations.

[Jarlve]

Modifications complete for efficient analysis. You guys might like this, the 340, but I expanded the range of cycles to include all cycles. 1 CA would be AB. Top picture stop positions, bottom picture disrupter positions. Looks like there is a lot happening in column 8 and rows 9 and 10. But maybe I should change the range to 2 CA ( ABA ) or 3 CA ( ABAB ).

I see that results differ much between changing cycle ranges. As you said, you will need to make allot of cryptograms and try to determine an optimal cycle range.

[smokie treats]

Modifications complete for efficient analysis. You guys might like this, the 340, but I expanded the range of cycles to include all cycles. 1 CA would be AB. Top picture stop positions, bottom picture disrupter positions. Looks like there is a lot happening in column 8 and rows 9 and 10. But maybe I should change the range to 2 CA ( ABA ) or 3 CA ( ABAB ).

I see that results differ much between changing cycle ranges. As you said, you will need to make allot of cryptograms and try to determine an optimal cycle range.

Yeah honestly I haven't used the spreadsheet much. I made it then got sidetracked with Kasiski last spring / summer. I don't know how to interpret it. Most cycles are false in any message, except for the longest ones. I am interested in working with the idea, but need to start from the top. A true message with perfect cycles compared with a message with all random symbol selection compared with a message with 50% random selection compared with 25% random selection. Learn from that and then move on. I need to make the picture a little bit smaller so that it can be viewed more easily.

What do you think of those disruptors at the end of row 10 an the beginning of row 11? Maybe nothing, but wondering about range optimization. You could have a cycle A = 1 2 3 4 5 and cycle perfectly. 1 and 5 could map to A, but in the first half of the message only get maybe 1 5 1 and that is it. Too bad I can only do L =2. I just don't know what to make of the tool at this point.

[Jarlve]

What do you think of those disruptors at the end of row 10 an the beginning of row 11? Maybe nothing, but wondering about range optimization. You could have a cycle A = 1 2 3 4 5 and cycle perfectly. 1 and 5 could map to A, but in the first half of the message only get maybe 1 5 1 and that is it. Too bad I can only do L =2. I just don't know what to make of the tool at this point.

I don't know what to make of it because there is nothing to compare it against. I'm very skeptical of 2 encodings in a straightforward manner. But there are some things which really bug me about the encoding in the 340. I think that your cycle starts and stops may shed some light on it. But you have to find an optimal range and preferably stick with it and then thoroughly compare it to other cryptograms. I think L2 is just fine. They are like bigrams.

[doranchak]

Plaintext p1 where the letters have swapped places at random for so many iterations.

Does that mean the plaintext is still readable or have too many swaps occurred to preserve readability?

[smokie treats]

Plaintext p1 where the letters have swapped places at random for so many iterations.

Does that mean the plaintext is still readable or have too many swaps occurred to preserve readability?

Are you shuffling the plaintext to simulate transposition?

[smokie treats]

Plaintext Cycles

A related subject from a post I made last May in the Homophonic Substitution thread:

**********

I found all of the plaintext cycles in the Jarlve 100 library, and here are the stats. The number next to the pair of plaintext is the average number of consecutive alternations across all 100 messages. The bar chart is very condensed, and doesn't show all of the plaintext pairs. But it does have a distinct shape, with a peak and high area near the top, and a sudden drop where certain plaintext like X are included.

Some plaintext pairs cycle with each other more than others. The plaintext pairs don't necessarily show the first order. In other words, plaintext pair AN could have a cycle that starts with A or N.

The top three are AN, IN and NO. Note that all include N.

The next group of six are HT, IT, AT, OT, ET, and NT. Note that all include T.

The next group of six are OR, RT, ST, IS, AR and IR. There are a mix of R, S and T.

It occurs to me that plaintext included in high frequency bigrams are close to the top, such as AN, HT ( TH is the same thing ), and ET ( TE is the same thing ). And plaintext that often appear in pairs, such as L, aren't close to the top because a pair destroys a cycle.

plaintext.cycles.Jarvle.100.1.png

Now I am wondering. Is a false cycle is a plaintext cycle that shows up as two ciphertext that are members of two different homophonic cycle groups, and which just happen to be cyclically encoded so that the plaintext cycle can be detected?

Probably not. The cyclic encoding of the homophonic cycle groups doesn't have to correlate perfectly with the plaintext cycle. The cyclic encoding of the homophonic cycle groups can skip over parts of the plaintext cycle, if there even is one. I think that when we are looking at false cycles, we are probably looking at two plaintext that don't cycle together, but look like they cycle together because of the homophonic cycles.

I will do a little more experimenting soon. I am just wondering if false cycles and true cycles have slightly different characteristics with regards to the spacing between ciphertext. Is there a way to tell the difference?

**********

[doranchak]

Then I looked at periodical bigram repeats and found something interesting that I don't know what to make of it. I want to consider it a loose observation for now. On top you have the transposed periodical bigram repeats with a peak at 18 (this is similar to untransposed period 19 btw). And on the bottom it is the same with "2z" merged into 1 symbol (cycle assumed). After doing that transposed period 78 peaks with 39 bigram repeats.

I wanted to reproduce this observation. Here are my numbers, do they look the same as yours?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

[smokie treats]

Without any further cycle start and stop work, I have been thinking about variations on the idea. Jarlve, you might like this one. I modified the spreadsheet to calculate the total count of positions covered for each cycle, then average the count of positions covered by each count of consecutive alternations. Below, x axis is CA, y axis is average positions covered, Zodiac 340.

discussion.1.27.17.1.png

The sheet can also show true versus false cycles if the key is known. So comparisons between statistics between true and false cycles can also be looked at in the future maybe. Transposed versus not transposed. All kinds of comparisons.