Route Transposition and Phenomenon

[Jarlve]

Smokie,

Fascinating stuff. My cipher shows 37 cycle starts in the first row and 8 in the second. And in the 340 it is more spread out with 24 cycle starts in the first row and 20 in the second. I wonder how that compares to other ciphers. The filler in my cipher are row 12 and 14.

Here's another one. A mystery cipher with a randomized plaintext.

Code: Select all

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 8 9 10 11 12 5 13 14 7
15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 3 25 26 27 28 4 19
18 29 30 31 32 1 18 33 34 21 35 36 37 10 12 38 17
3 39 6 4 40 41 1 42 43 18 44 32 45 46 18 47 18
48 49 5 19 11 7 16 22 18 50 21 6 3 51 4 37 18
19 1 23 18 27 52 26 43 36 21 13 53 7 30 12 54 5
48 55 56 22 16 6 57 3 13 7 15 1 4 17 30 19 18
10 58 16 21 59 28 24 5 32 6 3 33 38 60 10 61 45
13 47 26 30 1 62 7 35 16 10 6 7 11 5 36 16 43
11 27 15 18 6 7 16 4 38 44 37 54 12 2 52 1 5
25 46 22 6 35 34 39 36 10 2 26 44 43 63 57 8 59
6 49 1 9 56 36 52 4 14 51 24 40 12 41 44 40 27
45 31 7 41 40 41 6 36 58 6 38 18 13 30 23 15 36
10 6 50 55 42 53 14 28 46 35 27 26 11 16 57 14 61
60 40 28 34 50 33 61 2 9 41 3 27 31 57 29 36 33
14 62 6 15 54 40 37 48 36 56 27 6 63 10 4 35 34
26 47 17 27 36 41 5 40 10 9 57 60 10 10 49 14 19
21 34 10 41 40 27 45 57 9 30 41 8 14 50 27 7 10
15 23 6 58 17 33 20 57 42 16 19 40 28 47 8 4 6
18 36 49 46 17 6 45 27 57 35 61 34 34 8 11 37 26


[smokie treats]

Here you go. I am glad that you find it interesting. One of my goals is to eventually make a bunch of different cryptograms with different types of cycles and different start and stop points, then compare to the 340 to get a cycle "signature" for the 340.

These are the stop positions for the cycles:

discussion.1.25.17.D.png

And these are the positions of the symbols that break the cycles:

discussion.1.25.17.B.png

[Jarlve]

Hey smokie,

Thank you. The last cipher was one with 2 seperate encodings, one from position 1 to 170 and the other from 171 to 340. I think it was reflected reasonable well in your stats.

Here's another one. This one is solvable, I wonder if anyone could figure out what I did.

Code: Select all

1 2 3 4 1 5 6 7 8 1 9 10 11 12 13 6 14
15 16 11 17 16 18 16 19 15 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30 31 12 32 33 34 35 36 5 37 11 38 39 14 2
23 16 40 41 42 43 15 30 29 11 12 30 4 44 15 29 4
1 4 12 15 3 22 12 15 45 21 2 11 29 9 16 30 13
7 22 22 11 7 29 1 11 24 16 4 46 47 12 5 48 49
31 50 51 37 52 18 30 53 4 37 51 30 54 1 10 41 43
32 55 1 3 8 5 49 9 56 13 48 17 5 20 34 33 57
58 24 4 19 44 59 27 33 60 28 53 12 5 30 52 4 33
37 5 56 13 26 11 1 5 31 61 4 45 54 15 39 7 55
47 36 24 23 9 36 12 38 15 43 62 40 17 11 49 34 32
6 9 13 59 61 26 15 29 30 39 16 5 52 5 22 36 63
28 54 50 4 1 19 33 40 29 22 24 46 30 46 55 59 61
12 15 2 29 16 9 39 10 18 41 7 37 58 2 45 8 27
35 34 32 49 22 11 57 23 11 52 16 15 44 48 39 5 62
5 43 1 42 30 26 43 15 47 49 29 13 12 36 4 11 5
1 56 45 1 38 36 19 15 48 58 37 36 44 10 24 41 26
23 30 20 12 9 33 11 28 17 41 39 1 52 34 39 14 16
52 45 31 35 16 30 52 4 15 57 54 60 50 51 33 55 12
13 58 8 59 4 11 25 10 7 12 53 4 11 32 30 29 47


[smokie treats]

The last cipher was one with 2 seperate encodings, one from position 1 to 170 and the other from 171 to 340. I think it was reflected reasonable well in your stats.

That was a good idea. I don't recall ever looking at the 340 upside down with the spreadsheet, and didn't with you last one. But I can see that a lot of the stops are in the middle of the message. With only half a message, there would be fewer alternations; I didn't look at lower counts of alternations. Exploring these variations is a good idea.

[Jarlve]

The last cipher was one with 2 seperate encodings, one from position 1 to 170 and the other from 171 to 340. I think it was reflected reasonable well in your stats.

That was a good idea. I don't recall ever looking at the 340 upside down with the spreadsheet, and didn't with you last one. But I can see that a lot of the stops are in the middle of the message. With only half a message, there would be fewer alternations; I didn't look at lower counts of alternations. Exploring these variations is a good idea.

With a new measurement it is good to find out if it is useful, what can it do? So feed it stuff and get a feel for it. I have high hopes for your cycle starts and stops.

[smokie treats]

K I am going to make some slight modifications to automate things a lot more. Please do me a favor. The messages, equally space the symbols. Use 01 02 etc. with two digits each and one space between, or add an extra space when the symbol in only one digit. Thanks.

[Jarlve]

K I am going to make some slight modifications to automate things a lot more. Please do me a favor. The messages, equally space the symbols. Use 01 02 etc. with two digits each and one space between, or add an extra space when the symbol in only one digit. Thanks.

Okay, like this right?

Code: Select all

1  2  3  4  1  5  6  7  8  1  9  10 11 12 13 6  14
15 16 11 17 16 18 16 19 15 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30 31 12 32 33 34 35 36 5  37 11 38 39 14 2
23 16 40 41 42 43 15 30 29 11 12 30 4  44 15 29 4
1  4  12 15 3  22 12 15 45 21 2  11 29 9  16 30 13
7  22 22 11 7  29 1  11 24 16 4  46 47 12 5  48 49
31 50 51 37 52 18 30 53 4  37 51 30 54 1  10 41 43
32 55 1  3  8  5  49 9  56 13 48 17 5  20 34 33 57
58 24 4  19 44 59 27 33 60 28 53 12 5  30 52 4  33
37 5  56 13 26 11 1  5  31 61 4  45 54 15 39 7  55
47 36 24 23 9  36 12 38 15 43 62 40 17 11 49 34 32
6  9  13 59 61 26 15 29 30 39 16 5  52 5  22 36 63
28 54 50 4  1  19 33 40 29 22 24 46 30 46 55 59 61
12 15 2  29 16 9  39 10 18 41 7  37 58 2  45 8  27
35 34 32 49 22 11 57 23 11 52 16 15 44 48 39 5  62
5  43 1  42 30 26 43 15 47 49 29 13 12 36 4  11 5
1  56 45 1  38 36 19 15 48 58 37 36 44 10 24 41 26
23 30 20 12 9  33 11 28 17 41 39 1  52 34 39 14 16
52 45 31 35 16 30 52 4  15 57 54 60 50 51 33 55 12
13 58 8  59 4  11 25 10 7  12 53 4  11 32 30 29 47


[doranchak]

Here's another one. A mystery cipher with a randomized plaintext.

What do you mean by "randomized"? A jumble of plaintext letters with no readable words? Or a randomly selected message?

[smokie treats]

K I am going to make some slight modifications to automate things a lot more. Please do me a favor. The messages, equally space the symbols. Use 01 02 etc. with two digits each and one space between, or add an extra space when the symbol in only one digit. Thanks.

Okay, like this right?

Code: Select all

1  2  3  4  1  5  6  7  8  1  9  10 11 12 13 6  14
15 16 11 17 16 18 16 19 15 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30 31 12 32 33 34 35 36 5  37 11 38 39 14 2
23 16 40 41 42 43 15 30 29 11 12 30 4  44 15 29 4
1  4  12 15 3  22 12 15 45 21 2  11 29 9  16 30 13
7  22 22 11 7  29 1  11 24 16 4  46 47 12 5  48 49
31 50 51 37 52 18 30 53 4  37 51 30 54 1  10 41 43
32 55 1  3  8  5  49 9  56 13 48 17 5  20 34 33 57
58 24 4  19 44 59 27 33 60 28 53 12 5  30 52 4  33
37 5  56 13 26 11 1  5  31 61 4  45 54 15 39 7  55
47 36 24 23 9  36 12 38 15 43 62 40 17 11 49 34 32
6  9  13 59 61 26 15 29 30 39 16 5  52 5  22 36 63
28 54 50 4  1  19 33 40 29 22 24 46 30 46 55 59 61
12 15 2  29 16 9  39 10 18 41 7  37 58 2  45 8  27
35 34 32 49 22 11 57 23 11 52 16 15 44 48 39 5  62
5  43 1  42 30 26 43 15 47 49 29 13 12 36 4  11 5
1  56 45 1  38 36 19 15 48 58 37 36 44 10 24 41 26
23 30 20 12 9  33 11 28 17 41 39 1  52 34 39 14 16
52 45 31 35 16 30 52 4  15 57 54 60 50 51 33 55 12
13 58 8  59 4  11 25 10 7  12 53 4  11 32 30 29 47


Yeah, that's perfect. Saves me a lot of time. Thanks.

[smokie treats]

Modifications complete for efficient analysis. You guys might like this, the 340, but I expanded the range of cycles to include all cycles. 1 CA would be AB. Top picture stop positions, bottom picture disrupter positions. Looks like there is a lot happening in column 8 and rows 9 and 10. But maybe I should change the range to 2 CA ( ABA ) or 3 CA ( ABAB ).

discussion1.26.17.1.png