Route Transposition and Phenomenon

[smokie treats]

Here is the 340 cast into 16 columns, and the highlighted cells are P-16 that have the same symbols as P19. You can see the evenly spaced columns, which reminds me of what Largo was doing sort of. The idea is some sort of scytale, but with a lot of zig and some zag. P19 is going down, but P-16 is going up.

discussion.4.12.2019.A.png

Here is a new and improved matrix, so you can make your own herringbone patterns if you want.

171 180 230 188 195 236 202 208 245 213 217 257 221 224 272 226 227
162 229 172 181 235 189 196 244 203 209 256 214 218 271 222 225 289
228 154 163 234 173 182 243 190 197 255 204 210 270 215 219 288 223
137 146 233 155 164 242 174 183 254 191 198 269 205 211 287 216 220
128 232 138 147 241 156 165 253 175 184 268 192 199 286 206 212 305
231 120 129 240 139 148 252 157 166 267 176 185 285 193 200 304 207
103 112 239 121 130 251 140 149 266 158 167 284 177 186 303 194 201
094 238 104 113 250 122 131 265 141 150 283 159 168 302 178 187 318
237 086 095 249 105 114 264 123 132 282 142 151 301 160 169 317 179
069 078 248 087 096 263 106 115 281 124 133 300 143 152 316 161 170
060 247 070 079 262 088 097 280 107 116 299 125 134 315 144 153 328
246 052 061 261 071 080 279 089 098 298 108 117 314 126 135 327 145
036 044 260 053 062 278 072 081 297 090 099 313 109 118 326 127 136
029 259 037 045 277 054 063 296 073 082 312 091 100 325 110 119 335
258 023 030 276 038 046 295 055 064 311 074 083 324 092 101 334 111
013 018 275 024 031 294 039 047 310 056 065 323 075 084 333 093 102
009 274 014 019 293 025 032 309 040 048 322 057 066 332 076 085 339
273 006 010 292 015 020 308 026 033 321 041 049 331 058 067 338 077
002 004 291 007 011 307 016 021 320 027 034 330 042 050 337 059 068
001 290 003 005 306 008 012 319 017 022 329 028 035 336 043 051 340

And here is the first 340 of the 408, P-34 has the most in common with P1, but not as much as P-16 has in common with P19 of the 340, and that is also with fewer symbols. Cast into 34 columns below, and no evenly spaced columns.

discussion.4.12.2019.B.png

[Jarlve]

Not convinced if it is anything smokie.

I generated images versus all the other periods and I see patterns everywhere: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1iY9Xq ... InKKZKuknw

An example of the 408:

[smokie treats]

I am not convinced that it is anything either, as a message. But, a thought is that Zodiac could have used some type of cyclic, mechanical, or mathematical way of inscribing symbols, not necessarily a message, with multiple periods. Together, these periods and groups of symbols that he selected based on position, make P19, P39, the pivots, P-16, and P78. At least the herringbone pattern is on the radar and something to consider. Thanks for looking at it.

[smokie treats]

What about this idea. If there was an inscription or transposition that makes a lot of pivots ( I am experimenting with one now which seems to work well ), and only two of the several pivots are shining through. And then try to merge symbols to see if there is some way to allow for the other pivots to shine through. And then that might show the inscription or transposition. A solver that scores pivots instead of ngrams.

[capricorn]

Amazing that you are still working on this! It is still Greek to me but I do have to wonder about all these time-consuming computer manipulations most of which would have been impossible back in the day it seems?

I do remember my poi talking about "rail fence" and now I see something here where you talk about zigzag patterns! Which makes me think of what my poi knew about computer programming back in 1970. He sold computer time (Spectra series) for RCA which was a competitor of IBM; Cobal and Fortran is what was in use then along with the big mainframe computers.

I really think this code is far simpler than so much of what seems to be going on here. If it hasn't already been done years ago perhaps by now, it would be interesting to try decoding with Cobal/Fortran in mind.

[Jarlve]

Another challenge cipher:

Code: Select all

!+KT-2VJ16M?KFI+M
9$\*5,+^3X]>QT?D:
TA,WL)./\?2SFN($J
DC&Y4M'A$ME?HO\U+
^;$K^ZETS1V9V?8@U
26BG$!M*3<N-&J?^G
>$+IQ9.S@;//V7W?V
>$\,U"'$SAYHT*J.#
H+#L<1?O-7/.%<L[Q
&=$K6-1F[^R&?$3=?
$D0CV%WK1?SVT)$(/
2UJYNS9><E45<L!^:
MG%];+T\*EQ.2GH-W
#VML2Y;O&6\?D"$-Q
*5%?,IJ$^T1N'25MJ
W^\.)+H?SGTQPA$?#
WV(KJ9&[52JUJI2=$
DR?^UT'!$9YH?<D>,
L2\-LATQSZ=$GI7W[
%12S*)V,U.'8M<J(9


[smokie treats]

I am in the process of reading through this thread and making the table of contents with the links much more thorough. If someone wants something specific, let me know. I am about half done.

[Jarlve]

I am in the process of reading through this thread and making the table of contents with the links much more thorough. If someone wants something specific, let me know. I am about half done.

If possible, some sort of summation of the different kinds of transposition schemes that are listed in the various manuals.

[doranchak]

Here's a real life example of "columnar transposition with nulls":

http://scienceblogs.de/klausis-krypto-k ... odebreaker

Part of the story there is Jim Gillogly used a hillclimber to try to crack a columnar transposition but it was still messed up,
until he recognized that two columns of meaningless vowels had been added to the message.

Have you guys ruled out that possibility already?

The article further describes how an Australian codebreaker discovered that the remaining unsolved cipher couldn't be solved
until it was recognized that a cipher text letter was missing, throwing off the columnar transcription.

Very cool how he managed to figure that out!

[Mr lowe]

a long time ago we were looking at row 14 being an odd duck after a heat map put up from smokie. i cant quite remember all the details but swapping it with the last row did something?