Homophonic substitution

[Mr lowe]

This is a very rough estimate and doesn't account for other similar kinds of patterns that we would notice. I would put this in the category "worth looking at further."

What scytale width/period did you use? Can you show the transcription of the cipher prior to the scytale transposition step? I'm really curious now about the sequentially repeating bigrams (APAP, SBSB).

Many thanks for the analysis on this format doranchak.
I made a physical columnar scytale I think it was 12 then dropped it onto a spreadsheet. I will have to dig it out and make sure. it was all about aligning the period 19s from memory but in columnar form.. the result was the below. When the below is converted to 17 x 20 format we get the sequences.. maybe it needs to be put through a solver in all directions. from memory you converted it from numerals to symbols and into the 17x20 for me so I could run it through cryptoscope that is how I picked up on the sequences.
the below is before converting to 17x20

1 19 4 50 7 11 10 20 13 14 16 23
18 29 20 3 23 30 26 50 29 19 32 51
20 63 36 34 38 18 26 51 13 21 1 3
42 15 43 7 44 16 45 28 19 50 31 19
46 20 19 30 49 47 50 4 19 39 10 19
5 36 7 40 23 21 17 7 51 37 25 16
22 36 31 13 58 56 36 51 8 20 13 13
21 19 41 56 22 36 46 42 40 54 13 5
17 51 19 26 39 48 51 27 34 30 53 36
55 37 38 18 7 42 23 23 29 11 34 19
38 3 54 6 2 9 27 12 61 15 31
16 19 6 22 11 25 14 28 28 31 20
40 35 42 19 19 15 50 33 36 40 44
6 5 18 6 50 8 61 23 8 3 19
34 37 12 48 53 11 2 9 38 53 55
11 3 45 6 31 30 5 10 32 16 15
3 19 19 24 16 38 19 15 26 40 33
19 16 26 49 26 19 23 27 14 60 33
11 37 17 19 43 16 46 36 20 63 56
4 6 1 19 10 19 39 43 62 20 58
2 3 5 48 8 25 11 5 14 37 17
5 36 21 41 24 50 27 37 30 52 33
34 47 37 33 39 11 21 20 22 58 41
5 51 7 32 30 50 5 36 19 48 16
47 59 40 35 17 56 51 8 52 50 54
44 28 51 20 55 23 56 28 4 57 21
50 14 57 50 16 29 59 6 28 11 11
15 33 32 40 23 9 18 1 19 21 47
29 10 61 29 3 20 20 23 62 55 31
40 25 8 5 41 40 5 44 51 31 55

[doranchak]

I'm having trouble reproducing your steps. Any chance you could post an example of what steps you went through? Thanks.

[Mr lowe]

doranchak, I will have to do it tonight.. I will dig out my hand made scytale and see what I did. I do remember it being very simple.


cheers

[Mr lowe]

This is scy 30

image.jpeg

? columned brings in the 19s and when converted to 17 X 20 that sequence
Doranchak..I hope you can follow how I got to this. Cheers.

image.jpeg

[Mr lowe]

image.jpeg

[doranchak]

Thanks for the explanations, mr. lowe. Now I understand the steps.

I found that is it equivalent to the following steps:

1) Rotate Z340 90 degrees counter clockwise
2) Flip vertically

Steps 1 and 2 make the columns appear as rows.

3) Encode with scytale of diameter (period) 30
4) Transcribe the result to grid of width 17

Then your pattern appears.

Here is the cipher at each step:

Code: Select all

original:

HER>pl^VPk|1LTG2d
Np+B(#O%DWY.<*Kf)
By:cM+UZGW()L#zHJ
Spp7^l8*V3pO++RK2
_9M+ztjd|5FP+&4k/
p8R^FlO-*dCkF>2D(
#5+Kq%;2UcXGV.zL|
(G2Jfj#O+_NYz+@L9
d<M+b+ZR2FBcyA64K
-zlUV+^J+Op7<FBy-
U+R/5tE|DYBpbTMKO
2<clRJ|*5T4M.+&BF
z69Sy#+N|5FBc(;8R
lGFN^f524b.cV4t++
yBX1*:49CE>VUZ5-+
|c.3zBK(Op^.fMqG2
RcT+L16C<+FlWB|)L
++)WCzWcPOSHT/()p
|FkdW<7tB_YOB*-Cc
>MDHNpkSzZO8A|K;+

01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18 05 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33
20 34 35 36 37 19 38 39 15 26 21 33 13 22 40 01 41
42 05 05 43 07 06 44 30 08 45 05 23 19 19 03 31 16
46 47 37 19 40 48 49 17 11 50 51 09 19 52 53 10 54
05 44 03 07 51 06 23 55 30 17 56 10 51 04 16 25 21
22 50 19 31 57 24 58 16 38 36 59 15 08 28 40 13 11
21 15 16 41 32 49 22 23 19 46 18 27 40 19 60 13 47
17 29 37 19 61 19 39 03 16 51 20 36 34 62 63 53 31
55 40 06 38 08 19 07 41 19 23 05 43 29 51 20 34 55
38 19 03 54 50 48 02 11 25 27 20 05 61 14 37 31 23
16 29 36 06 03 41 11 30 50 14 53 37 28 19 52 20 51
40 63 47 42 34 22 19 18 11 50 51 20 36 21 58 44 03
06 15 51 18 07 32 50 16 53 61 28 36 08 53 48 19 19
34 20 59 12 30 35 53 47 56 02 04 08 38 39 50 55 19
11 36 28 45 40 20 31 21 23 05 07 28 32 37 57 15 16
03 36 14 19 13 12 63 56 29 19 51 06 26 20 11 33 13
19 19 33 26 56 40 26 36 09 23 42 01 14 54 21 33 05
11 51 10 17 26 29 43 48 20 46 27 23 20 30 55 56 36
04 37 25 01 18 05 10 42 40 39 23 44 62 11 31 58 19

rot90 ccw, then flip vertically:

HNBS_p#(d-U2zly|R+|>
Epyp985G<z+<6GBcc+FM
R+:pMR+2MlRc9FX.T)kD
>Bc7+^KJ+U/lSN13+WdH
p(M^zFqfbV5Ry^*zLCWN
l#+ltl%j++tJ#f:B1z<p
^OU8jO;#Z^E|+54K6W7k
V%Z*d-2ORJ|*N29(CctS
PDGV|*U+2+D5|4CO<PBz
kWW35dc_FOYT5bEp+O_Z
|Y(pFCXNBpB4F.>^FSYO
1.)OPkGYc7pMBcV.lHO8
L<L++FVzy<b.cVUfWTBA
T*#+&>.+AFT+(4ZMB/*|
GKzR42z@6BM&;t5q|(-K
2fHKkDLL4yKB8+-G))C;
d)J2/(|9K-OFR++2Lpc+

01 18 20 42 46 05 22 21 17 55 38 16 40 06 34 11 03
19 11 04 02 05 34 05 47 44 50 15 29 40 19 29 63 15
20 36 36 19 51 37 03 19 35 05 37 03 19 16 37 06 03
36 47 51 59 28 14 33 10 25 04 20 36 43 19 07 31 41
19 38 54 06 42 18 12 45 19 26 17 01 05 21 37 07 40
51 57 32 61 08 50 03 34 07 30 40 13 56 26 18 06 22
19 06 48 06 24 49 19 19 48 41 22 32 35 20 12 40 29
05 07 23 38 44 49 23 58 22 39 07 02 11 19 50 53 31
63 26 43 10 08 24 39 30 17 55 16 23 03 41 11 30 18
16 47 21 56 36 48 42 09 25 15 08 11 30 38 19 16 19
25 50 11 53 56 23 29 09 20 40 10 26 26 45 50 17 36
46 51 23 27 14 50 61 02 05 19 23 46 39 11 27 21 05
51 56 59 18 20 05 20 53 51 28 04 07 51 42 27 23 12
28 33 23 09 10 15 27 36 43 05 37 20 36 08 28 06 01
23 44 13 29 13 19 19 51 08 40 34 29 61 28 36 08 38
32 26 14 20 62 14 30 22 19 52 04 28 19 62 51 14 19
21 53 39 37 20 54 30 11 15 31 40 03 53 16 40 60 63
20 37 52 58 48 50 57 11 21 55 31 16 32 01 31 10 25
13 13 53 34 31 20 44 19 55 15 33 33 56 58 17 33 41
16 54 21 11 47 31 55 23 51 03 19 19 16 13 05 36 19

apply scytale with diameter(period) 30, then apply width 17 and the sequence H*H*F+F+ appears:

H+>5^|kBLT2ON<BRO
*W4<+fFB6cyUNWFL(
HRSG7^823.+4K+_B+
*j95>+Zk+pc^zO(d^
FMD2#cKL;CcFVBLL(
+JC#c_Sz/LpdF+WZt
FYy*4c-MUN^SOO<|y
+UR/lEPY1bGK2+l#|
DT..KBz:S++G5)cz8
lpNl5VbOVR+yM1t4|
EPU4-|R3lK*pkf2GR
++%6U+GWz)+2WjW+O
YT@)|Md+72_cB6C>l
H+k+Z7AB;ERptVD|p
TMdpc(J%5YM*&)y9M
#Z|(B#;JpF^f*4pc+
t29Xz:dCFV&5/8.FB
-OC.>q(5Tq12<Xl.|
|G)fzOPNH+(9<kb<R
BBOA-KzDVpJzp8FK-

01 19 04 50 07 11 10 20 13 14 16 23 18 29 20 03 23
30 26 53 29 19 32 51 20 63 36 34 38 18 26 51 13 21
01 03 42 15 43 07 44 16 45 28 19 53 31 19 46 20 19
30 49 47 50 04 19 39 10 19 05 36 07 40 23 21 17 07
51 37 25 16 22 36 31 13 58 56 36 51 08 20 13 13 21
19 41 56 22 36 46 42 40 54 13 05 17 51 19 26 39 48
51 27 34 30 53 36 55 37 38 18 07 42 23 23 29 11 34
19 38 03 54 06 02 09 27 12 61 15 31 16 19 06 22 11
25 14 28 28 31 20 40 35 42 19 19 15 50 33 36 40 44
06 05 18 06 50 08 61 23 08 03 19 34 37 12 48 53 11
02 09 38 53 55 11 03 45 06 31 30 05 10 32 16 15 03
19 19 24 63 38 19 15 26 40 33 19 16 26 49 26 19 23
27 14 60 33 11 37 17 19 43 16 46 36 20 63 56 04 06
01 19 10 19 39 43 62 20 58 02 03 05 48 08 25 11 05
14 37 17 05 36 21 41 24 50 27 37 30 52 33 34 47 37
22 39 11 21 20 22 58 41 05 51 07 32 30 53 05 36 19
48 16 47 59 40 35 17 56 51 08 52 50 54 44 28 51 20
55 23 56 28 04 57 21 50 14 57 12 16 29 59 06 28 11
11 15 33 32 40 23 09 18 01 19 21 47 29 10 61 29 03
20 20 23 62 55 31 40 25 08 05 41 40 05 44 51 31 55

So I think you are right - we need to generate a bunch of different possibilities for these kinds of operations, and feed them into azdecrypt to see if anything pops out.

I also want to try to figure out the positions in the original Z340 that correspond to the H*H*F+F+ pattern. I'm wondering if the positions correspond with any other curiosities about the Z340.

[doranchak]

I also want to try to figure out the positions in the original Z340 that correspond to the H*H*F+F+ pattern. I'm wondering if the positions correspond with any other curiosities about the Z340.

OK I figured this out. Here are illustrations of the process, with your H*H*F+F+ pattern marked at each step:

Original Z340:

mr-lowe-scytale-pattern-1.png

Note that one of the symbols involved in your pattern is also involved with one of the pivots.

Rotated 90 degrees counter-clockwise, then flipped vertically (so now the rows are read as columns):

mr-lowe-scytale-pattern-2.png

Written to a grid of width 30, to better show the effect of scytale of diameter (period) 30:

mr-lowe-scytale-pattern-3.png

The scytale 30 operation is then the same as reading out the above columns one by one:

mr-lowe-scytale-pattern-4.png

Now, isn't this interesting: Look at where the pattern appears in the original Z340. Some of the symbols are separated by this rule: Move down 3 positions, then move across 3 positions. The same movement can be used to describe the pivots themselves: If you start at the top of a pivot, then you can follow it by moving down 3 positions, then moving across 3 positions.



(Update: I hope someone can verify my steps, because I'm worried that I made some mistake somewhere.)

[Mr lowe]

Doranchak ...great work ..I'm struggling to keep up .. Can you mark the original pivots on a similar format and then see where they end up in this structure.. Cheers.

[doranchak]

Funny you should ask, since I happened to be working on that already!

mr-lowe-scytale-pattern-with-pivots.png

Doesn't appear to be much pattern to the pivot pieces there, apart from the half filled square coinciding with your vertical pattern (on row two). And some of the pivot symbols share columns.

[Mr lowe]

Am I right in saying that a period 30 columnar scy brings together period 19s in the rows..?

Sorry let me think about that some more...its late here...