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Re: A diagonal shift?

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:30 am
by Jarlve
Hey doranchak,

I probably need a break from the cipher work. That being said I have some ideas which you could explore.

Instead of information moving horizontally through the ciper normally.

Code: Select all
1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 -

Snake like patterns throughout the whole grid.

Code: Select all
2 - 3   6 - 7   
|   |   |   |   |
1   4 - 5   8 - 9   

Or diagonal transpositions in pairs of two, three, etc.

Code: Select all
12
 34
  56
   78

Re: A diagonal shift?

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 4:31 am
by doranchak
Thanks.

Is it possible for you to upload the transposed cipher texts that produced the highest values of your non-repeats measurement? I'm curious if other interesting features can be detected in those transpositions.

Re: A diagonal shift?

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:49 pm
by Jarlve
The highest are ofcourse the horizontals but these are the most significant "bumps" and they are both diagonal.

Input: horizontal. Output: NE-SE, oxcart even. 3669. (doing transposition)

Code: Select all
HR>ËIB¢Ÿ„½^µF+K¼Ä
EÐP²+·BÃÐÌIPµÑL<-
ÌVLÐO£MоÄ+·º¹MŸu
^TNºÆ+S»Êˆ¢ƒ++B+F
GÄDKuJVÔ³D±¤ÂFRB¤
±W»ZH´¤Ë±uy+</ˆ°³
y<G¤Ð+/>ÃNZ½µ+¼VÔ
•W·OMÐFX¸RÐÔ•SÃ+K
¢L+¼¾ËG+±OEMŸ•+B¢
£+¸RCVOF+I³·ÂŸ¤OW
R±^Ä•·BJDT+³B´ÐÌB
KF»¤ÊÃ^yµN±X•^FI¢
Ì-LÆŸ+B»Iµ²Ã•+£/£
OIJAVÐIµÆ»IÆ<LTÐB
¢±°uÂJF^„+MC+HIO»
G³ÌTRBN³-Ѱ+SFy-Ë
K¤MÌÃF¼µG²£O˸CÐS
-KâGCZ±LWPÄBÃN¤I
O<ƒÌEuR+CÃWÔ>HZAK
±¾R>VÃT¤W<½MDO¾ƒ+

Input: SE-SW. Output: horizontal. 3592. (undoing transposition)

Code: Select all
ı£GÆJTKH±L»¤K/²<
·RË¢I•L+³DIËy£+ˆ±
L¼PW¢O+>¤LKVDWÐPF
•¹³-^ºG´FËV+°ŸOÌO
ZVµCG¤ABKFзu»IÄX
yŸFMBR>¢+¾Ä»ÃNÃ<T
ˆ¾+RBMÌÊ-u¸B½Â+ƒ+
+E+Ã^ÔO±+FÐЕ¢Ô-±
HЄ½¤ÌƒO±OBMóµGL
NŸÐ+Fº·R+y³BVZÑ£Ð
BÐM^ÑÊZJDTFÃuMI£Ã
S¼RKÆ+^Iµµ•VÆB¢C+
¸¾+JÂ+E»IÂ>•W/-ƒÐ
µ±+VÔIN³E^ÌT»K·GM
uµJ+±CÐFHBI¢<Ì/R·
µ¼O+SOAĤR̟Ƴ¢<O
y¾-+ÃS^„KCP¸Ou<¼N
»B°ÃBZ±°F²¤²WÔ¤¤G
X´L¤½SÌB•+C<ËŸÃTW
WÐIãÄNR+ËH+FDIM>

Maybe the second one will be of some interest. It somewhat overlaps with my findings about row 6 to 15 because they look visually similar for this transposition, although the visual similarity only exists mainly from row 8 to 13.

Image

I've tried a couple of 100.000's of combinatons of full grid transpositions like these with AZdecrypt, stacked rotations etc and nothing interesting came out of it. I have also tried 32 distinct full grid spirals, 4 starting points * 4 directions * doing/undoing. Damn cipher won't yield!

Re: A diagonal shift?

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:08 pm
by Jarlve
Also, if such a strong full grid transposition is actual in the 340 it was surely done before the encoding. The non-repeat data strongly indicates horizontal encoding. Therefore, if transposition was done after or during encoding it has to be somewhat subtle.

If not then what could be the cause of some of my data sets being out of line in respect to the 408 and others? I'm thinking one or a mix of the following, transposition of the plaintext, poor encoding and/or symbol to letter distribution (can increase bigram counts by a huge factor), a "large" number of filler symbols (untested) and the plaintext being a word search is a really good fit for most of it. Untested languages and polyalphabetism does not correlate well with the bigram distribution found in the 340.