REAL OR FAKE?

[traveller1st]

I find the lower case g's interesting in the '78 letter. Real or fake, either way interesting 'style' choice and habit variations have also been included.

Firstly. That 'style' of g is quite interesting. Why? Well it's not Zodiac's typical lower case g. Zodiac's most often used is this.

norm-gs.jpg

Then we have variations on those. Here are a few examples. They are obviously Zodiacs g's but look at the differences. They are quite varied once you get into detail regarding head shapes etc.

norm-gs-pt-2.jpg

So this brings us to the '78 letter. What's so interesting about the g's. Well for one thing they aren't Zodiac's typical g's. In fact they aren't even that similar to any of the variations (in the accepted letters). They are however closer in style to the g's used in the Citizen letter. That's kinda interesting though because if you were a forger would you pick and use exclusively a style of g that was only ever employed in a Zodiac letter that technically isn't even a Zodiac letter?

So I compared the two sets of g's out of curiosity and in doing so I noted a similarity in the variation range in the tails on the g's. The tops are obviously different but the ones in the citizen letter share striking resemblances to other ones used by Zodiac. It's the tails he varied but what he appears to have done is carried over the 'variation range ' in the tail shapes.

Here's what's confusing me. If you are trying to fake a Zodiac letter why would you create what is technically a new style of g albeit with previously used habits in the tails only? Ok, lets say you spotted that trait in Zodiac's own letters and are attempting to recreate. If you are going to that level of detail why can't you create a letter that looks authentic in all aspects. Why does this letter look like a forgery yet contains, at least to my eye, some very clever subtleties.

There's more. That style of g, I thought had only turned up in the Citizen letter but it technically hadn't. It had already made an appearance in the Belli letter. Again variation on the head but similarities in the tail variations. So what the? lol. Is this a really convoluted fake or is it something else. Anywho, my eyes and brain need a rest so here's some more pictures to hopefully illustrate what I'm on about. I'm not sure I know anymore.

78-g.jpg

[Tahoe27]

Thanks for the comparisons Trav. I know that is time consuming to put together.

We know the '78 (to some) was a decent fake, and many today believe it is authentic. For it to fool some, it had to be Zodiac-like. Some have stated that letters were traced somehow and if one were to do that I would think would go to a variety of previous Zodiac letters to do so.

[morf13]

Thanks Trav. There's something 'off' with the g's from 78. They look traced or something, and the tops do not look at all like Zodiac's

[traveller1st]

Thanks for the comparisons Trav. I know that is time consuming to put together.

We know the '78 (to some) was a decent fake, and many today believe it is authentic. For it to fool some, it had to be Zodiac-like. Some have stated that letters were traced somehow and if one were to do that I would think would go to a variety of previous Zodiac letters to do so.

I would think that too. In fact that would be my base assumption or indeed even my own choice if I were too consider such an undertaking. What I find weird here is that whoever created the '78 letter looks to have done that but appears to have made some odd choices. I don't know. Just trying to get my head around the logic in it. I mean they appear to have created a 'new' type of g but following Z's own variations and indeed his own habits. There's more as well. The choices of the styles of lowercase m's are quite curious too. I'm slightly confused as to how in one way whoever created it has payed attention to some rather obscure details yet overall it looks for all the world like a mish-mash creation but with new variations alongside pre-existing ones. Some of those m's looks similar to ones used in the Marco letter and the desktop.

I'm not trying to argue either way on it. Just wondering out loud at what I think I'm seeing and trying to understand if or how that fits into the context of creating that letter. If it's real or fake. Either or.

[traveller1st]

Thanks Trav. There's something 'off' with the g's from 78. They look traced or something, and the tops do not look at all like Zodiac's

They do. How do you get the variations right in the tails though with the wrong top? How do you get the wrong top at all if they are traced? How can you trace from something that hasn't been done before?

[bmichelle]

Trav

Thanks for your hard work!! You have no idea how often I refer back to a lot/many of the comparisons you have done--in doing my own research. Your work is much appreciated.

[morf13]

Thanks Trav. There's something 'off' with the g's from 78. They look traced or something, and the tops do not look at all like Zodiac's

They do. How do you get the variations right in the tails though with the wrong top? How do you get the wrong top at all if they are traced? How can you trace from something that hasn't been done before?

Maybe its the thickness of the ink?

[Tahoe27]

Thanks for the comparisons Trav. I know that is time consuming to put together.

We know the '78 (to some) was a decent fake, and many today believe it is authentic. For it to fool some, it had to be Zodiac-like. Some have stated that letters were traced somehow and if one were to do that I would think would go to a variety of previous Zodiac letters to do so.

I would think that too. In fact that would be my base assumption or indeed even my own choice if I were too consider such an undertaking. What I find weird here is that whoever created the '78 letter looks to have done that but appears to have made some odd choices. I don't know. Just trying to get my head around the logic in it. I mean they appear to have created a 'new' type of g but following Z's own variations and indeed his own habits. There's more as well. The choices of the styles of lowercase m's are quite curious too. I'm slightly confused as to how in one way whoever created it has payed attention to some rather obscure details yet overall it looks for all the world like a mish-mash creation but with new variations alongside pre-existing ones. Some of those m's looks similar to ones used in the Marco letter and the desktop.

I'm not trying to argue either way on it. Just wondering out loud at what I think I'm seeing and trying to understand if or how that fits into the context of creating that letter. If it's real or fake. Either or.

Bizarre for sure.

Now consider this...

The Belli letter has things reminscent of the '78 letter. The crossing out of words, etc. Could parts of this letter be the template for the '78 letter?

Another thing I noticed is that Maupin specifically mentions all the times Toschi used the word "help" in the fake letters to him. Every one of them used the word "help" - one of them three times. The Belli letter uses "help" twice.

***Maupin's mention of "help" here under the fake typed Toschi letters: viewtopic.php?f=84&t=163&p=238http://zodiackiller.com/BelliLetter.html&hilit=maupin#p238

***Belli Letter: http://zodiackiller.com/BelliLetter.html

[Chet Desmond]

as time goes on I see more of what may have led to the handwriting confirmation for the RP letter in some of the other confirmed letters. In particular the Kathleen Johns letter.

My big issue with it is that with the possible exception of the Belli letter, Z was never quite this able to stylize completely. There's some deviation with the G's but it doesn't lose the general theme and is in general a great work of art.

[traveller1st]

as time goes on I see more of what may have led to the handwriting confirmation for the RP letter in some of the other confirmed letters. In particular the Kathleen Johns letter.

I've seen them too and, imo, they overlap. By that I mean the last set of letters and then in turn to the main bulk stretching back to the Riverside stuff. I haven't got around to the doing any work on the KJ letter for presentation but I have seen the 'similarities'. Here's some work on the similarities between the RP letter and the Citizen if you haven't already seen this.

viewtopic.php?f=96&t=789