Symbionese Liberation Army

[ophion1031]

A thread to take a closer look at the Symbionese Liberation Army itself. Was Zodiac a member of this radical group? The SLA was not as recognized as most of the other radical organizations of the era, but Zodiac obviously knew of them.

This group , formed in Berkeley 1971 by Russell Little and Robyn Sue Steiner, was made up of mostly middle and upper class white folks.

[up2something]

The SLA was in the news a fair amount at the time, especially in CA. Z was obviously a fan of the papers, but I doubt he was a member.

[Tahoe27]

I don't know...their black members disguised themselves as white guys and it apparently worked.

Edit: The whites dressed up as blacks--oops.

[UKSpycatcher]

If he was a member of the SLA it was very short lived and he would have committed none of his confirmed murders while belonging to them. They also only committed 2 murders, which doesn't sound enough for Zodiac's insatiable appetite for murder. If the Zodiac had been successful in all his attacks he would have murdered 7 people in 10 months, trading this in for a few robberies and 2 murders is not likely. The SLA killed for a reason, although abhorrent, they followed a cause, whereas the Zodiac simply killed for entertainment. A serial killer and a politically motivated group in tandem is simply a recipe for disaster. If the Zodiac had belonged to the SLA he would probably have killed them all, before they had ever robbed a bank.

[murray]

I just don't see the "joining" part fitting. Even if Z wasn't truly a loner like his psychological profilers paint him, and was instead an average guy who was married and even had kids, his persona as a killer and letter-writer seem dependent upon total control and total confidentiality. While possible, this is unlikely when you're part of a team.

[Tahoe27]

Just adding this here...

5/25/11

I am reading Patty Hearst's book about her time spent with the SLA.

Patty wrote about when they left one of their hideouts and this message being left for the FBI:

"Warning to the FBI, CIA, NSA, NCS, and CBS---There are few clues in this bathroom. However, you will have to wait until they are dry.
An additional word of caution: 1/2 (one half) lb. (pound) of cyanide (potassium cyanide) crystals have been added to this 'home brew'--so, pig, drink at your own risk. There are also many additional juicy SLA clues throughout this safehouse. However, remember that you are not bulletproof either. Happy hunting Charles"

They were referring to "Charles Bates", the head of the SF FBI offices.

The whites in the group would dress up as blacks. "Blackface" they called it. Wigs, make-up, the whole 9 yards. Went off without a hitch.

There are so many interesting tid-bits that remind me of the Zodiac case! I will add more later. (No, I don't think they were Zodiac. )

viewtopic.php?f=99&t=220&p=499&hilit=sla#p499

7/23/11

I'd recommend the documentary film, "Guerrilla: The Taking of Patty Hearst".... it's excellent IMO.

Great footage and interviews with SLA members. Revolutionary folly that spun out of control from the very start.

Thanks for the heads-up Rufus! Looks like it's on youtube. I will check it out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tS1MhsWX ... CD76058D57

[Norse]

I just don't see the "joining" part fitting. Even if Z wasn't truly a loner like his psychological profilers paint him, and was instead an average guy who was married and even had kids, his persona as a killer and letter-writer seem dependent upon total control and total confidentiality. While possible, this is unlikely when you're part of a team.

Agreed.

Z killed alone and wrote letters alone, on behalf of nobody but himself. That is what his actions and his writing indicate. Whether he was a loner or not, as such, I don't know. But as Z he was a solo operator, I see no reason to think otherwise. The tone and content of his letters bear this out, I think. If he had been part of some operation (a cult or an activist group or something of the sort), it's very probable this would have been reflected both in the actual murders and in the letters. It is not, however.

As for the SLA specifically, if Z was a member, then he was one of a small group of people whose identities are – I believe – known. Meaning: We know who the SLA members were and I don't think there's much chance of Z being any one of them.

[ophion1031]

I just don't see the "joining" part fitting. Even if Z wasn't truly a loner like his psychological profilers paint him, and was instead an average guy who was married and even had kids, his persona as a killer and letter-writer seem dependent upon total control and total confidentiality. While possible, this is unlikely when you're part of a team.

Agreed.

Z killed alone and wrote letters alone, on behalf of nobody but himself. That is what his actions and his writing indicate. Whether he was a loner or not, as such, I don't know. But as Z he was a solo operator, I see no reason to think otherwise. The tone and content of his letters bear this out, I think. If he had been part of some operation (a cult or an activist group or something of the sort), it's very probable this would have been reflected both in the actual murders and in the letters. It is not, however.

As for the SLA specifically, if Z was a member, then he was one of a small group of people whose identities are – I believe – known. Meaning: We know who the SLA members were and I don't think there's much chance of Z being any one of them.

There is really no proof that he acted alone in the killings. I personally think he had a partner that wrote the letters and think that there were others involved, but I have no idea how many. I am 50/50 on Z being involved with some sort of political and/or religious group. It never hurts to look into these things. The more doors that are open the better.

I don't think Z would have been a SLA member either, but it is possible. I think there was a better chance he was in another organization.

[Norse]

There is really no proof that he acted alone in the killings. I personally think he had a partner that wrote the letters and think that there were others involved, but I have no idea how many. I am 50/50 on Z being involved with some sort of political and/or religious group. It never hurts to look into these things. The more doors that are open the better.

I don't think Z would have been a SLA member either, but it is possible. I think there was a better chance he was in another organization.

Fair enough - and I agree that it doesn't hurt to look into things, within reason.

No proof that he acted alone in the killings? Well...no. But then again, there's no proof of a Team Z either. My main problems with the latter (in various forms) are these:

There is absolutely nothing remotely substantial which indicates a connection between the victims. If it was a team, or a group, or an organization - they seemingly targeted random individuals. That's very uncommon.

Even if they DID target random individuals, you'd expect some kind of agenda to be behind it. Something political or religious (satanists, cultists, radicals...something), but there is nothing substantial which indicates this either. Neither the murders (not even Berryessa, IMO) nor the letters point to any agenda beyond, well, trying to appear as infamous as possible.

Lastly, the old "three can keep a secret if two of them are dead" principle. Nobody has ever claimed (not even pure crackpots, to my knowledge) that they were part of a Team Z effort.

[ophion1031]

There is really no proof that he acted alone in the killings. I personally think he had a partner that wrote the letters and think that there were others involved, but I have no idea how many. I am 50/50 on Z being involved with some sort of political and/or religious group. It never hurts to look into these things. The more doors that are open the better.

I don't think Z would have been a SLA member either, but it is possible. I think there was a better chance he was in another organization.

Fair enough - and I agree that it doesn't hurt to look into things, within reason.

No proof that he acted alone in the killings? Well...no. But then again, there's no proof of a Team Z either. My main problems with the latter (in various forms) are these:

There is absolutely nothing remotely substantial which indicates a connection between the victims. If it was a team, or a group, or an organization - they seemingly targeted random individuals. That's very uncommon.

Even if they DID target random individuals, you'd expect some kind of agenda to be behind it. Something political or religious (satanists, cultists, radicals...something), but there is nothing substantial which indicates this either. Neither the murders (not even Berryessa, IMO) nor the letters point to any agenda beyond, well, trying to appear as infamous as possible.

Lastly, the old "three can keep a secret if two of them are dead" principle. Nobody has ever claimed (not even pure crackpots, to my knowledge) that they were part of a Team Z effort.

I agree. Another thought is that Z was in some group but the group had no idea of his extracurricular activities. I think there is a far better chance of that then an actual group behind it, and the things you pointed out would be a good example of that I mean. At the very least, I think there was a killer and a letter writer/partner.