Page 2 of 6

Re: Could this card be from a hoaxer?

PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:01 pm
by doranchak
For what it's worth, here are FBI file excerpts showing what their examination of the Halloween card produced:

fbi-halloween-1.jpg

fbi-halloween-2.jpg

fbi-halloween-3.jpg

fbi-halloween-4.jpg

fbi-halloween-5.jpg

Re: Could this card be from a hoaxer?

PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:04 pm
by doranchak
Richard Grinell wrote:Then somehow this author just happened to include the "by knife" attribution, which was written on the Karmann Ghia but unknown to the public. This is the third "coincidence".

To be fair, the public articles about the attack included the facts that rope and knife were involved.

Re: Could this card be from a hoaxer?

PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:31 pm
by Richard Grinell
doranchak wrote:
Richard Grinell wrote:Then somehow this author just happened to include the "by knife" attribution, which was written on the Karmann Ghia but unknown to the public. This is the third "coincidence".

To be fair, the public articles about the attack included the facts that rope and knife were involved.


That is true Dave, but the fact the author made the exact same reference of "by knife" and featured it prominently alongside the other methods of death in a special arrangement, highlighted more its significance. If the author of the Halloween card had just written "I attacked the couple at Berryessa by knife", then its significance could be lessened. The Zodiac, however, featured the wording "by knife" in a standalone phrase, rather than incorporating it within a sentence describing his attack.

Also, of all the things the author could have added to the Halloween card, he just happened to use "by knife" on its own, when these were the only two words on the car door not revealed to the newspapers.

Re: Could this card be from a hoaxer?

PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:08 pm
by traveller1st
Wanted to add this into the mix as one of many reasons (I think) this is most likely genuine. One of the things zodiac did was employ multiple styles as we all know. Despite this the underlying authorship 'shows through' as you compare all of his communications together. You can even see it here in what I've compared. I do want to highlight one thing in this however. It's not widely used but I have come across it and made a mental note of it. Other's might have seen it or commented on it as well.

It's regarding some instances of his 'lowercase c'. The top of it has a small, angled stroke. It exists from the Riverside communications right through to his last communications and of course including the Halloween Card. Not consistently of course. There are many communications where I don't think he used it which makes me think it's a styling choice. I've tried to show this with a few of the envelopes.

Exorcist card env C comp.jpg

Re: Could this card be from a hoaxer?

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:21 am
by Jarlve
traveller1st wrote:It's regarding some instances of his 'lowercase c'. The top of it has a small, angled stroke. It exists from the Riverside communications right through to his last communications and of course including the Halloween Card. Not consistently of course. There are many communications where I don't think he used it which makes me think it's a styling choice. I've tried to show this with a few of the envelopes.

Interesting, I never noticed it.

I have this thing where my "C", always the upper half, is often not closed enough, and when I know someone else may read the text, then I will amend the upper half to make sure it is not mistaken for "L".

Re: Could this card be from a hoaxer?

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:03 am
by Fisherman'sFriend
I always thought the way "sorry no cipher" crosses with itself as very Z like.

I think it's obvious to most that there is a missed opportunity in that arrangement to use the "no" as the center of the x, but he has two "no's" instead. But the fact that is is clearly intended to be an x contradicts the idea this was an afterthought. If it was cruciform (horizontal and vertical) I would think differently.

Anyway, I don't ascribe great meaning to it other than it loosely jives with his seemingly scattered (in)ability to spell, little word games, puns, etc. Just a generally agitated and scattered mind. I think it's not a hoax.

I disagree that the "paradice / slaves" thing is in 340. I think that's a huge stretch.

After many years of looking into this I'm still unclear as to why anyone thinks there is a direct reference to 340 in this. Why? because it says sorry no cipher? or because of the block arrangement of by knife, rope etc? Sure that is vaguely cipher-esque, but there's nothing in it that is a direct reference to 340.

Re: Could this card be from a hoaxer?

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:16 am
by doranchak
Fisherman'sFriend wrote:After many years of looking into this I'm still unclear as to why anyone thinks there is a direct reference to 340 in this. Why? because it says sorry no cipher? or because of the block arrangement of by knife, rope etc? Sure that is vaguely cipher-esque, but there's nothing in it that is a direct reference to 340.


A long time ago, Jos Kirps noticed parts of "PARADICE / SLAVES", and 4 occurrences of "BY", appearing in Z340. Here's his original page about it (now defunct but preserved by wayback machine):

https://web.archive.org/web/20090408042 ... zodiac340/

Re: Could this card be from a hoaxer?

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:32 pm
by jacob
doranchak wrote:
Fisherman'sFriend wrote:After many years of looking into this I'm still unclear as to why anyone thinks there is a direct reference to 340 in this. Why? because it says sorry no cipher? or because of the block arrangement of by knife, rope etc? Sure that is vaguely cipher-esque, but there's nothing in it that is a direct reference to 340.


A long time ago, Jos Kirps noticed parts of "PARADICE / SLAVES", and 4 occurrences of "BY", appearing in Z340. Here's his original page about it (now defunct but preserved by wayback machine):

https://web.archive.org/web/20090408042 ... zodiac340/


Occam's razor dictates that this is the solution and the rest of the cipher is junk.

Re: Could this card be from a hoaxer?

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:56 pm
by Fisherman'sFriend
Hi everyone, yes I'm aware of the partial paradice and slaves and the 4 "by's" but there are so many other things that can be spotted when you loosen the rules to that degree, so I feel like it can't be that useful ultimately...
That's just my opinion.

Re: Could this card be from a hoaxer?

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:56 pm
by Richard Grinell
It's not just the comparison between the 340 and Halloween card, it's both Fairfield letters and the clues in the 13 Hole postcard that point to the design of paradice and slaves in the 340. I don't really know what more the Zodiac could have done, other than actually tell us the 340 was no cipher. Oh, sorry he did - on the Halloween card envelope that mimicked the paradice and slaves configuration, that mimicked the crucifix on the 13 Hole postcard, that mimicked the cruciform pattern in the 340 cipher, that mimicked the design in the December 16th Fairfield letter - and finally - By Fire, By Gun, By Rope, By Knife, paradice and slaves (38 characters) that mimicked the cipher count of 38 in the December 7th Fairfield letter, which By Fire, By Gun, By Rope, By Knife, paradice and slaves could be fitted perfectly on every row. All just a coincidence of course.