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Re: Not as Dumb as I Thought?

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:16 pm
by Soze
Center lines mean absolutely nothing. The center line should have been down the center of the timer. Plus, the right side view isn't drawn correctly nor should there have been a right side view of the timer to begin with. Top and bottom is all that was needed. He is not an engineer.

Soze

Re: Not as Dumb as I Thought?

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:04 pm
by up2something
No, probably not an engineer, soze. Was he just trying to appear more intelligent than he actually was? Maybe. I guess I question why he would even bother drawing these other views at all. Just not commonplace, IMO.

Re: Not as Dumb as I Thought?

PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:53 am
by Soze
First, I don't believe there was ever a bomb. I doubt very seriously the Zodiac ever had any knowledge pertaining to a bomb aside from the word its self. I cant see him picking up a hand tool his whole entire life. To me, he was more of an indoor boy.

I do agree with your statement that he was "trying to appear more intelligent than he actually was" but don't feel it was entirely inclusive. I feel that his depiction of a bomb and its many views were an attempt to mask what it truly was: locations on a map. Locations that were pertinent to him. Its my belief that the Zodiac was telling law enforcement how to find him but he wasn't going to make it easy for them. This is where I do feel he was clever. The Zodiac had nothing to lose either way: 1. if he gets caught, his name and face get written in the history books 2. If he doesn't get caught, the same thing happens. Its all a game and the only person who wins that game is him because i think he is satisfied with either scenario.

Soze

Re: Not as Dumb as I Thought?

PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:06 pm
by ggluckman
Soze wrote:...
I feel that his depiction of a bomb and its many views were an attempt to mask what it truly was: locations on a map. Locations that were pertinent to him. Its my belief that the Zodiac was telling law enforcement how to find him but he wasn't going to make it easy for them.
...


Hi Soze,

Interesting thought.

Can you elaborate?

How might the bomb drawing be a disguised depiction of locations on a map?

Tks,

G

Re: Not as Dumb as I Thought?

PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:34 pm
by traveller1st
I remember touching on this somewhere, think entropy was posting too. We we surmising that although those diagrams were roughly technical in their presentation. It was my own feeling, at the time, that he employed that as a graphic solution rather than as a matter of accuracy. I think it is his familiarity with layout that shows here with the "technical" diagram as decoration to that. He's more interested at times in dealing the space and less concerned with the actual content, I think.

That leaves it open to quite a few professions. This is why I think that Z may well have been quite talented but with no or very little real world time in any related professions. Not ones that directly involved 'drawing' as a blanket term.

One of the 'constants', if there is such a thing, in Zodiac's communications was mixing. He mixed styles, sometimes between the envelope and it's contents. He mixed the contents, in regard their subject. He mixed words, chritmass, bussy, etc. He mixed the symbols in regards their sources, in his ciphers. This suggests to me someone who borrows from what they observe around them and then translates that to convey another message. Designers essentially do that so it's why I lean towards towards seeing that? I don't know but that behaviour is there. Of course I just see hints, never anything strong enough to, to point any one profession. All we might be seeing are shadows in these connections because they are all borrowed and the more important thing is the finished product and what it can tell us about the author.

Then we end up here again I suppose and asking each other these questions lol. Cyclic nature of this case.

Re: Not as Dumb as I Thought?

PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:55 am
by Soze
traveller1st wrote:This suggests to me someone who borrows from what they observe around them and then translates that to convey another message.


This is exactly what he is doing but he is not always borrowing things that are around him. I'm in the process of giving gluck a partial answer to his question and will go ahead and post it. Technically, it answers his question but it opens up other things that need to be addressed and I haven't finished that yet. It will touch on your point so hopefully I will get that finished soon.

Soze

Re: Not as Dumb as I Thought?

PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:49 am
by Soze
ggluckman wrote:
Soze wrote:...
I feel that his depiction of a bomb and its many views were an attempt to mask what it truly was: locations on a map. Locations that were pertinent to him. Its my belief that the Zodiac was telling law enforcement how to find him but he wasn't going to make it easy for them.
...


Hi Soze,
Interesting thought. Can you elaborate? How might the bomb drawing be a disguised depiction of locations on a map?

Tks,

G


Sometime back in 2010, I was looking at a map of San Francisco and thinking about Paul Stine's last ride. I am moving about this map and catch a glimpse of what looked a lot like the timer. I pulled up the bomb diagram and began comparing it to the location on the map. What I found was this: (probably should follow along with your own map)

The 5 bombs that he has drawn on the bomb diagram are actually streets in a subdivision called Anza Vista. This subdivision, back in the day, use to be a cemetery called Calvary before the city of San Francisco tired of cemeteries being in the city and moved the cemetery further south. If memory serves me correctly, the gutters along Buena Vista Park are lined with broken and, perhaps even full, headstones from this cemetery. I guess it should be noted, also, that some of these headstones could also be headstones that washed up on the beach but the cemetery rings more true. If memory serves me correctly, there are even photographs of these gutters showing what looks like names on a head stone. Rather disgusting if you ask me. Don't recall the name of the city the cemetery was moved to off hand but Colma sounds familiar. Don't quote me on the name though.

There are two wires that come off the bombs and point south towards the timer. This is actually one street, Divisadero, that in turn, turns into Castro. Castro continues on and runs into Market. From market, it runs southwest to Clayton. It travels north on Clayton to Frederick and then east into Buena Vista Park. Buena Vista Park is the timer. If you look at a map while I am describing this, you also see the two mirrors he depicted as being Stanyon and Arguello. The buses line of travel depicted in the bomb diagram is Geary. The section in the diagram that the mirrors are connected to is Golden Gate Park.

I know it seems like a stretch. I thought that when I first came up with the idea. People can and do see what they want to see. But as crazy as it sounded, I thought that if he did do this (terrorize a community with a bus bomb plucked right off a map of San Francisco), then he did it with something else. So I went looking for that something else.

This is when I decided to use the symbols from the Exorcist letter. I took these symbols and turned them 90°, 180° and 270° clockwise. I began comparing them to San Francisco. I found nothing. I then thought well, he murdered people in Vallejo and perhaps, the symbols could be found there. I found nothing. Thinking the same thing about Napa, I zoomed out and it was at this point I recognized one of the symbols from the Exorcist letter.

You have to take the Exorcist letter symbols and turn them 90° clockwise. When in this position, the symbols line up with the following: Muir woods, Brooks Island, Treasure Island (the symbol I recognized first), Alcatraz, 5th and Mission, 7th and Mission, Brannon, Industrial and Oakdale streets. At first, I thought maybe he was showing a boundary from which he could be found. But then I started realizing that Muir Woods is a National Historic Monument, that Brooks Island, Treasure Island and Alcatraz were all part of the National Park Service. This by definition also made Muir Woods a part of the National Park Service as well.

I started wondering if 5th, 7th, Brannon, Industrial and Oakdale contained something concerning the National Park Service and went looking for it. At 5th and Mission is the U.S. Mint. At 7th and Mission is the U.S. Federal Court of Appeals. At Brannon and 7th is the National Carbon Company, also known as, Everready. Each one of these are part of the National Park Service as a National Historic site etc. What through me for a loop for quite some time (at least a year) was Industrial and Oakdale. I found nothing in the way of parks, monuments, landmarks etc., etc.

Then one day I am reading up on the city of San Francisco and the earthquake of 1906. The city of San Francisco was nearly destroyed by this earthquake and the fires that followed. I learned that most of the people of San Francisco had to move further south to an area of the city known as Butchertown. The conditions described were absolutely appalling. These butchers were lined along a creek called Islais Creek and had been for some time tossing the carcases of dead animals and rotting meat into this creek. The stench filled the air. Most people were sick.There was not an abundance of clean water and so on as you can imagine. It was this that also brought about a later concern with the Hetchy Hetch.

Well Islais Creek ran right through the area of Industrial and Oakdale before there was an Industrial and Oakdale. Today, its still there but now its underground in the form of an estuary. No doubt run by California officials but under the confines of the Bureau of Reclamation. The Bureau of Reclamation is, obviously, not a part of the National Park Service. However, what the National Park Service and the Bureau of Reclamation have in common is their parent organization: The Department of Interior.

Now the Department of Interior was created out of a need that other departments of the federal government had: the need to get rid of departments within their own organization that didn't seem to fit. So all these departments that didnt seem to fit got crammed into a new organization called the Department of Interior. The Department of Interior, when it was first created, was humorously known as "the Department of Everything Else" for it was now in charge of or on top of everything else that wasn't needed.

If you recall, the zodiac spoke of (on top of everything else) torturing his 13 slaves for the afterlife. In my opinion he was referencing the Department of Interior. I know that doesn't make much sense now. However, when I go to post the remainder of this post in a day or two, it will be plainly clear that there is a much bigger story to the Zodiac than what's being discussed.

Soze

Re: Not as Dumb as I Thought?

PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:25 am
by Nick, no Nora
A Tech Writer?