X=Z? Pros and Cons

[mike_r]

Hi-

Not going to get into a huge discussion about this but I spoke to my friend Jim, who was with me for an hour speaking to KQ in 2006. He is from California and did not detect any noticeable accent. If you want to say Jim is hopelessly biased, so be it.

Mike

[duckking2001]

Yeah, I can hear that accent you are talking about. But it's only because I'm listening very carefully for it, and it only pops up in a couple places.

If he's "disguising" his accent, he's doing a damn good job of it. He has a very natural sounding "American" accent and he does not sound like a non native English speaker. The guy was like ninety two in that commercial right? His speech sounds like it's effected more by his age than anything else.

If he sounded the same way in the 60's, I feel pretty confident he could say what the Zodiac said, a few short sentences, and not have any accent noticed. So that's not a con for me.

PS. Is that his writing in the commercial?

[drew]

I think he obviously has a European-sounding accent. I would expect a native speaker to pick up on that right away.

[mike_r]

Lol! That all sounds very interesting but the only problem is that there is no such thing as a "European accent." There is a UK accent, an Irish brogue, a German accent, a French accent, an Italian accent, a Scandinavian accent...so which one pray tell me is it?

In the 1958 article, which was clearly written long before the Z case took place, all the author said is that KQ hd a "slow" manner of speaking. Period. No mention whatsoever of a Scandinavian accent...or a "European accent" for that matter. And the author was not "hopelessly biased" in favor of my research unless he owned a time machine.

Mike

[snooter]

i will admit no way that nancy slover lady would ever be able to tell anything but a merican voice..yes i do have some bias because I know X was a norway guy so that is just my bias cause I have enuff arm chair quarterback (go razorbacks) info here...if the damn cops would have created a composite of the perp with KJ it might have been helpful..I have heard all they did was show her the stine composite drawing..i would really like to know what KJ would have said the guy looked like..but alas no dice,,goin out on a limb here Mike..i like X at 30% Z at this time (damn I like x as z..TK as well)..ive said enuff..god speed

ps: i am going to say my Z POI preference for just cause sakes ..i blame marvin martian..little dude had a death ray and a space ship..could be and get anywhere quickly..plus being martian would know all the codes (again he is martian and some of those code symbols look martian to me or some kind of ancient indian/egyptian mummy stuff)..this time i am truly done-snoots out

[drew]

The reason I used "European accent" was because I could not pin down the exact country. Maybe he sounded a bit different in his younger days. I did play the audio for two other people, who thought they heard hints of an Irish accent when they first started listening.

[AK Wilks]

I think that is right Drew. Most Americans might be able to label an accent as German or Italian or Mexican. I think for many other countries - say Poland, Switzerland and certainly Norway - countries whose accent they have likely never heard with any regularity if at all - they might just say they detect a "foreign" accent or perhaps a "European" accent.

Nobody has accused you of being biased Mike. I think most researchers, myself included, who have invested a lot of time in a POI may have some mild unconscious selectivity when it comes to their POI, but I try to guard against it and I think you do as well. I think you would post all info about your POI good or bad. I do not think you are biased. I think you do not overstate the facts against X. You don't hear an accent. Others with no interest in your POI also do not hear an accent.

Some others reported not hearing an accent, some said they heard a very slight accent that is well disguised by slow and deliberate speech, others report definitely hearing an accent. So I am not alone in hearing it, and you are not alone in not hearing it. Thanks to all those who posted.

Going back 40 years or more from the date of the commercial, would any accent likely be less, the same or more? In my experience, as the grandchild of immigrants, and as a military policeman and an attorney, accents become less noticeable the longer the person is in the country and they consciously and subconsciously adopt more speech patterns of their country of residence. So I would say it is very unlikely that Mr X had less of an accent in 1969 then he did in 2012, and that is was either the same or more likely somewhat more pronounced.

Given that some people hear the accent and some don't, given that Hartnell had a conversation with Z, and seems to have been a perceptive young man with a good memory, it surprises me that he mentioned no trace of any foreign accent at all. And that the police operators mentioned no foreign accent. Given that some people hear it and some don't, it is possible that they just did not hear it. But I would think at least one of the earwitnesses to Z would have at least detected a trace of a foreign accent.

But it is just one item to be considered, or not, along with all the other information on Mr X, both inculpatory and exculpatory, which Mike R has done an excellent and fair job of researching and presenting.

[snooter]

the fear emotion with MM and MH may have significantly affected what those 2 actually heard and I just do not trust either of those 2 memory..just a thought..still think KJ (if she was really with Z) and slover lady (may be best witness to voice) are probably 2 of the better witnesses to Z and his voice. (granted I think KJ was with Z)...i dunno..you guys are the experts so you can tell me your thoughts..like to know what morf thinks as well..he knows tons of stuff as well as you 2 guys...

[themysterymachine]

Norse, since you are the resident expert here on the language, maybe you can clarify.

Generally it seems that certain languages- could be the entire Romance family of languages- have certain pronunciations that seem to stick with a speaker even 50 years down the road. I know that friends of mine who are native Spanish speakers take forever to lose their accents. Something always remains in what someone mentioned as a "sing-song' sort of cadence in the manner of speaking, but there is also the double rr in Spanish, the "s" sound in German, "r" in Asiatic speakers, etc., that will probably remain with the speaker forever in some form.
I really, honest to god, don't hear any accent on the video, but I do hear a sort of "sing-song" cadence like I mentioned. There is a rhythmic quality that strikes me as non-American. But its very, very subtle. But I am wondering if there are any sounds that would be found in the Norwegian language that could be comparable to those formerly mentioned pronunciations, something that would betray the speaker in terms of forensic linguistics as a Norwegian native even 70 years down the road? Some languages don't have that, I reckon, those particular, tough-to-erase-from-your-mindbank sounds. Whereas those Spanish "rr" and those German "zee" for "see" bits are hard to overcome. I am from the South and no matter how many decades I don't live there, I am sure someone would hear it just by the way I pronounce "in-surance" with a different emphasis. Are there any good "tells" as far as you know in general in Norwegian, or is it sort of more even in that way? I hope I am making sense.

[themysterymachine]

SO, all in all I think that even if it ISN't KQ I am increasingly excited by the idea that it would have been someone LIKE HIM. That seems to put it on firmer ground and certainly the methodology of putting him on the suspect list was sound, and not based on wild speculation. Inevitably speculation HAS to enter into the picture somewhere if you set your spotlight on a certain guy. I am not seeing anything on KQ in terms of connection with the other cases, its just a Stine proximity, but the type of man he is- an innovator, millionaire, etc., broadens the field and gets it out of the doldrums. Z wasn't a nobody trying to be a somebody. He already WAS a somebody- in some way. Which can only make it easier to find him. If he were just some pathetic wanderer we wouldn't know who he is. There are a hell of a lot fewer KQs in the world than garden-variety lowlife-rapist types.

Then again, think of Gacy. Gacy met the first lady. Lawd, wrap your head around that. He also had a bunch of KFC restaurants. (Chicken= young boys )
So Z might be more like Gacy, in terms of being able to hang in the real world yet be a murderous perv in his free time. Not many of those guys are terribly well adjusted but Gacy and Bundy seemed fairly stable- for a time anyway. They had homes and jobs and people liked them, sort of. Whereas other dudes were heavy-lifting-but-stable types (Leonard Lake, Kenneth Bianchi, Israel Keyes), or creepy obviously-damaged guys like Ramirez, Arthur Shawcross, Dahmer.
These are obviously my own ad-hoc categories here but I think its very important to look at the overall match on the personality type and flesh out from there. I think Walter was right when he said that Mike had it- may not be THE guy but its a guy LIKE him.