Admin, Subject: Mr. X background Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:12 am
Mr. X background courtesy of Mike Rodelli at the following site:
http://mikerodelli.com/ (SITE NOT ACTIVE DON'T CLICK)
Zamantha, Subject: Mr. X Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:14 pm
The more I ponder the Z and the more I ponder the suspects, I keep returning to re read this information that Mike Rodelli put together for all of the Zodiac followers to read and ponder. The research and work that Mike put into this is outstanding. I sincerely hope everyone here, reads and/or re reads all this information....and perhaps just ponders...what IF.... he's right???
I also know our other friend from the Opord and ZodiacZee site put hours of time researching this. I also know sometimes Mike and In Bonus Fides did not always see eye to eye. Myself, I would like to hear more from both of them Re: this case. How about it guys!?
Zincerely, Zam*
PZ, I JUST PM'd and Emailed both of you, please read!
, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:14 am
I'd just like to point out that I was working with Mike Rodelli on this back in 1999, and I was the one who actually discovered Mr X. I know he's found a lot of interesting things, but it didn't take long before I grew disenchanted with Mr X and realized he couldn't be Z.
Quagmire, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:51 am
So what would be the reasons for you eliminating him as a suspect?
, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:00 am
Granted, Rodelli's researched this for the last 11 years, but when we first started looking into him, the best we could come up with was that LB occurred on his dad's birthday, BRS occurred on the 22nd anniversary of when he spotted some UFO's, he wrote a letter to the editor around the 6 month anniversary of LHR that Rodelli thought was a blueprint for the Z crimes, his name has the same number of letters as "my name is" cipher has symbols as well as the final 18 symbols of the 408-cipher, and lived in PH not far from Washington & Maple. He looks exactly like the composite, but so what? Toschi admitted in 1978 that they were never sure how good it was in 1969, which would lead one to suspect that it doesn't really resemble Z that closely and that anyone who looks like that composite is almost certainly not Z.
Those are pretty weak grounds for suspecting someone of murder and certainly does not warrant a decade-long investigation into him in order to prove he's Z. Interesting enough to warrant a closer look, that's what I did, but these coincidences don't prove he's Z any more than the coincidences surrounding just about every other suspect out there.
AK Wilks, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:54 pm
I do not think Mr. X was Z, for a whole host of reasons, including the complete lack of record of violent crimes or any crimes at all.
But in fairness, I will say that when I talked to one of the top forensic men on the case (and in the country) he told me that the possible Zodiac DNA that SFPD has was dubious, perhaps contaminated and 50/50 as to it being real Zodiac DNA, at best. He told me he would not rule out Rodelli's Mr. X, or any suspect, solely on the basis of a non-match to that DNA.
, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:11 am
I'd be surprised if they didn't check his prints and handwriting too. But my main problem is, while the rich do kill (Phil Spector & Joran van der Sloot, anyone??? Just to name two), I can't think of any serial killer millionaires. Doesn't mean there aren't any, but one would wonder why someone with so much to lose would risk it all killing several people. Killing one person in a fit of rage, sure, it happens, but Z planned his crimes and didn't stop at one. That doesn't sound like something a man who is so well-known and who has a lot of $$$ in the bank would risk...
AK Wilks, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:55 am
I agree. There is nothing in the known background, personality or interests of Mr. X to make me think he was Zodiac or could be Zodiac.
But in fairness I thought I should mention, as I have before, what I was told. Which is that the possible Zodiac DNA is not reliable and one of the top forensics men on the case would not dismiss Mr. X, or any other suspect, soley on the basis of a non-match to that DNA.
, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:24 am
Very good point. HOWEVER... if Mr X were in fact Z, then he'd have no way of knowing whether or not his DNA was somehow on that stamp or not. He would not have volunteered his DNA to clear himself as he did, he would have fought tooth and nail to prevent any DNA testing and made it clear that he was to be cremated after he died.
So, it wasn't the results that cleared Mr X for me, it was the very fact that he volunteered his DNA in order to do so. That is not what a guilty man would do...
AK Wilks, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:11 am
I agree. Mr. X is a very smart man. Articles about touch DNA were already appearing at the time. So I agree, if Mr. X were the Zodiac, even if he knew he never licked a stamp, he would be worried about where he could have left touch DNA (a victims clothes, car, on a letter, etc.), and thus would never have voluntarily give up DNA in my opinion.
, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:46 pm
Just watching shows like Forensic Files shows how suspects refuse to give a DNA sample and how careful they are about leaving anything behind for the cops to get, but they usually slip up. Even if Z never licked the stamps, touch DNA would still be on there and if Mr X were guilty, well...
In Bonus Fides, Subject: Mr. X Evidence Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:17 pm
There is a VERY large amount of circumstantial evidence that implicates " Mr. X" ( God, I HATE calling him that as so much of the evidence can not be contemplated without specifics!!- Give me free rain, within slander suit limitations and I wCAN prove A LOT!!)
I intend to begin a series of posts that , IMHO, will begin to show motive, opportunity and benefit as well as the specifics as to why his DNA was inconclusive and it is a personally confirmed source.
" Mr. X" 's "Business Interests" took him all across the Pacific NW on scheduled public and private meetings.
In the late 1960's, two local stamps would make the mailing of out of locale letters possible anywhere in California to anywhere in California.
Among other things, "Mr. X"'s lifelong secretary has confirmed that she would pre-stamp envelopes with two stamps and send "dozens" at a time with him on "road trips" and she was with him from 1949-1990.
I have begun a new "career path" which has opened up new channels of information and resources to help with our "hobby".
I intend to post the first of several posts in the very near future especially as it is the Labour Day long weekend here in Canada.
Cheers,
In Bonus Fides
latin translation- In Good Faith
:rendeer:
zodio, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Sun Sep 05, 2010 5:40 pm
I've heard about the letter to the editor a number of times but no specifics as far as what was so 'Z' like about it. Anyone know ? Ed ?
AK Wilks, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:35 pm
I personally don't see it as "Z like" very much. It does mention kids dead in the street. But the writer of this letter is very pro-police, so that doesn't fit Zodiac at all. The context is the chaos of the 60's, both left and right used violent rhetoric. Nothing about this strikes me as "Z like", it is pro-police and pro-establishment. Not Zodiac.
Zamantha, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:34 pm
Hi, In Bonus Fides
Welcome Back, you were missed. I for one would like to hear more about what you found. I have my own Zynchronicity reasons for this.
Also, want to hear a little" more of that new job of yours and how you starting talking about Z, and found some interesting ideas.
I know your busy, but hurry back!
zodio, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:21 am
AK Wilks,
Much appreciated.
morf13, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:03 am
Wish Mike R was on here more. I dont agree with him in believeing that Mr. X was zodiac, but I do like the info he has and what he brings to the table. Plus he is a fellow Jersey guy
In Bonus Fides, Subject: Atlas Shugged Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:41 pm
If someone can help me post a pic here with a Mac ( should I not be succesful!), I would appreciate it.
IBF[img]/Users/chrismacrae/Desktop/sc035bd71c.jpg[/img]
In Bonus Fides, Subject: Atlas Shugged- Notice anything...symbol wise??? Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:57 pm
In Bonus Fides, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:50 am
Under the rules of the forum and the looters;
I will only post this picture and tell you that it MAY or MAY not have any relevance here;
Oh.....and I can't tell you why or why not!!
In Bonus Fides, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:10 am
this did or maybe did not post the first time.
Will check my premises
In Bonus Fides, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:14 am
Sewing skills?
"Red Phantom"?
"A Citizen"
Seems my posts have been edited.
morf13, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:54 am
In Bonus Fides wrote:Sewing skills?
"Red Phantom"?
"A Citizen"
Seems my posts have been edited.
Not by me...ask one of the other MODS. They would only edit if you revealed specific info that would ID mrX
AK Wilks, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:38 am
IBF, none of your posts have been edited in this thread, to my knowledge.
Post what you want, as long as it doesn't reveal personal info on X.
Zamantha, Subject: Mr. X background Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:09 pm
Not I. In fact this forum is so nice, I hardly ever had to edit. In fact, I don't like to ever edit unless it's truly neccessary, as I like everyone to have their say.
I know a couple times when I was downloading something, I thought I saved it and I didn't...I know that can happen.
Back to your posts, yes interesting mark on the horse blanket. Did he ever state what that meaning meant? Or was it like his logo?
mike_r, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:46 pm
Hi
I am telling you that this IBF individual needs to be watched very carefully. He does find interesting things but he also finds things that are misleading. Duuuuude, I know which horse that is. Did you know that Mr. X did not own him until after his racing days were over? Therefore, photos depicting training predate his ownership! Those are not Mr. X's colors on the blanket! You should be able to figure out what his colors are by his current stable of racers. Now, whether or not he may have purloined that pattern from the blanket for any letters he may have penned in the 1960s, that is another story. But this horse raced for different owners in the 1950s, and never ran for Mr. X. Therefore, the photos you have posted do not reflect the colors of Mr. X's barn.
Have to be fair to Mr. X, as I always am. I am being placed in a position of defending my suspect but such is life and I do not have it in for anyone. Never did and never will. But let's build a case with carefully researched and documented facts, not factoids. Let's make sure we do our homework before we say that things are true.
Mike
In Bonus Fides, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:33 am
Defend this..... and, IMHO, grow a set of Balls Mike! It's time to step up with what you know and defend it!! The Freakin guy is 91, His kids have abandoned the family business for other ventures and, as I have said before, "It ain't slander if it's true"
A symbol known only by a letter from Z in the 70's but worn on a necktie by a certain someone in 1952 in this stock photo.
Mike.....just cause I screwed Jane Smith in 1979 does not mean I didn't obsess about her or something about her in 1965!!!??
See what I mean about "colors" "symbols" and such and how timelines have no real bearing on the possible "influences" of Z!!!
I didn't own a 1991 Mustang Cobra GT until 1999 .......but I knew it was a fast car and a lot about it before.
Do I need to post another example??? As Hannibal Lecter says in Silence Of The Lambs; " What do we covet, Clarece??" " Do we covet Random Things or do we covet what we know...what we see every day??
Tie with Familial Crest from ----------- at a public event By "Mr.X" , circa 1952.
" Van Halen" Symbol from "Halloween Card", previously unidentified since 1970.mike_r, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:37 am
Hi-
Calm down. I do not have to defend myself; I am behaving responsibly and moving cautiously. You have to explain how you can breathlessly post things that you swear are true but are not. Don't turn it around on me!
You told me that the Zodiac watch company sent you photos of this exclusive Zodiac watch, or at least verified its existence. None of the experts I've spoken to can verify that a rectangular, Zodiac moon-phase watch exists. They said it was a knock off or some manufacturing error. You gave me some model number. Nobody can find it. Try working on this issue instead of moving to something else. You just throw sh$t at the wall and see what sticks. And from my own research into your statements, a lot of your sh%t is coated with Teflon. I don't operate that way. And your reason for doing so (that you live outside of the US) is unacceptable to me. Responsible research is responsible rsearch no matter where you are.
As far as the size of my family jewels is concerned, you are forgetting that I have been pointing the finger at one of the wealthiest men in SF for eleven years. I am the one who went to SF and sat down with him, stared him in the eyes and asked him questions about the case. (My friend Jim was there, too.) Nobody thought I would have the balls to do that including, I believe, Mr. X. And he was untruthful in his answers on several questions. So I have done my part.
Once again, kudos on the "sister city" find but...they should all be factual like that.
Now let me look at this tie...
Mike
mike_r, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:41 am
Hi-
I can't even tell what symbol is on the tie. And BTW, as far as I know his kids have not "abandoned" his business. Where did you get that from? One of them is still running the family business as far as I can tell. Try Googling his name. I have to go to work and don't have time to drill down on this issue but can you prove that the kids have left the family business? If you can, I'll chalk up another one for you.
Mike
, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:51 am
....what are you guys smokin'.....seriously.................
morf13, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:15 am
mike_r wrote:Hi-
I can't even tell what symbol is on the tie. And BTW, as far as I know his kids have not "abandoned" his business. Where did you get that from? One of them is still running the family business as far as I can tell. Try Googling his name. I have to go to work and don't have time to drill down on this issue but can you prove that the kids have left the family business? If you can, I'll chalk up another one for you.
Mike
I agree with MikeR, there is no way you can see ANY true design on that tiue from the photo you included. MikeR believes Mr X. was Z, and has tried to prove it for years, but even he does not reach for cluse such as bad photos of a design on a neck tie. As I have said in previous posts, I think sometimes, people that have a favorite suspect or POI will reach for things, or see things that they simply want to see.
AK Wilks, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:01 am
The symbol on the tie looks like a "4" to me. I don't think it looks much like anything on the Halloween card.
mike_r, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Sat Oct 30, 2010 11:11 am
Hi-
For anyone who remembers Dr. Larry and his outrageous comments from a couple of years ago, this is for him:
This is from a blog written in March 2009.
"Saturday I took a day trip up to XXX in Northern California, where I had the pleasure of visiting with well-known "person" "Mr. X" in the XYZ club. The 89-year-old Mr. X – still sharp as a tack – is an iconic figure at XYZ, ..."
Sort of rubs in the fact that his mind is still working overtime, huh? I guess X's 2006 "dementia" has miraculously "cleared up."
And to think Dr. Larry was speaking to aides of Mr. X and that he barely knew how to eat anymore, etc. They were writing up the libel suit against me as Dr. Larry spoke, etc. Good work, Larry. X did not have an impaired memory in 2006. I was had, as you were had. I was had by X. I don't know whose BS story you fell for. For anyone who knows who he is, X's latest business venture opens next week. Pretty good for someone whose mind was going in 2006. The only things he can't recall are things that tie him to the Z case...Mike
Zamantha, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Sat Oct 30, 2010 7:53 pm
mike_r wrote:Hi-
For anyone who remembers Dr. Larry and his outrageous comments from a couple of years ago, this is for him:
This is from a blog written in March 2009.
"Saturday I took a day trip up to XXX in Northern California, where I had the pleasure of visiting with well-known "person" "Mr. X" in the XYZ club. The 89-year-old Mr. X – still sharp as a tack – is an iconic figure at XYZ, ..."
Sort of rubs in the fact that his mind is still working overtime, huh? I guess X's 2006 "dementia" has miraculously "cleared up."
Mike
Ok, so this is the second plus time that Mr X. played a game on someone? I find that curious, like is he just having his fun with us. So, IF I'm following this correctly... Dr. Larry visited Mr. X, and Mr X played dementia like? But at the same time was planning on suing? When in 2009 someone had a visit with Mr. X. and he was (and still is) sharp as a tack. Yes, to start a new business adventure at his age.......he must be sharp.
mike_r, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:08 pm
Hi Zam-
Well, not quite. I am the one who visited Mr. X and was lied to in our 2006 meeting, which took place at X's request, not mine. I had never requested nor desired such a meeting.
Larry, I am assuming, had an Internet exchange with a spoofer who claimed to be one of X's relatives or minions. This person made Larry believe that X was so far gone that he couldn't feed himself and that I was teetering on the edge of being sued. I had "taken advantage of someone who had memory loss." They tried to make me look like a cruel perosn who asked questions of someone incapable of understanding what I was asking. Now X is taking on a new business venture. I seriously doubt anyone from X's inner circle would contact a person like "Dr. Larry" and tell him anything of substance. He got duped but was mouthing off a lot about me when he should have done some digging to see who he was really talking to.
Mike
Zamantha, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:48 pm
mike_r wrote:Hi Zam-
Well, not quite. I am the one who visited Mr. X and was lied to in our 2006 meeting, which took place at X's request, not mine. I had never requested nor desired such a meeting.
Larry, I am assuming, had an Internet exchange with a spoofer who claimed to be one of X's relatives or minions. This person made Larry believe that X was so far gone that he couldn't feed himself and that I was teetering on the edge of being sued. I had "taken advantage of someone who had memory loss." They tried to make me look like a cruel perosn who asked questions of someone incapable of understanding what I was asking. Now X is taking on a new business venture. I seriously doubt anyone from X's inner circle would contact a person like "Dr. Larry" and tell him anything of substance. He got duped but was mouthing off a lot about me when he should have done some digging to see who he was really talking to.
Mike
Thanks for making it clearer, appreciate it. Mind Blogging that he requested the meeting. This is the meeting were he changed the date correct, to match a victims anniversary date? Ok, and when you say Dr. Larry... do you mean Dr. D. as I seem to recall he also said he had contact with Mr. X. ? Or is not, Dr. Larry ______ ? who. Thanks, trying to get this all straight in my mind.
mike_r, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:34 pm
Hi-
Dr. Larry is irrelevant. I just wanted to let anyone who recalls his posts that he was talking nonsense.
The real issue is that Mr. X invited me to SF in 2006. As soon as I walked into his office his "second" told me that Mr. X's mind was beginning to wander. That was a lie based on many pieces of evidence readily available on the Net that prove that Mr. X is in control of his senses.
Why create such a scenario unless someone had something to hide and wanted plausible deniability for his answers to my questions--many of which were not truthful? What is this man hiding? Why did he tell me he had never so much as touched a gun in his life if that is not true based on a military yearbook that details the type of basic training all recruits in his military class got in the 1940s? Was he a conscientious objector before it was fashionable and was the one guy who refused to touch a gun in violation of protocol? Or didn't he want me to know that he was familiar with handguns? If he is innocent, why does it matter what training he received?
Mike
mike_r, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:23 pm
Hi IBF-
OK. I extracted the photo of the tie and enlarged and rotated it and can see what you are getting at. It does resemble the "Norse runes" symbol on the card and envelope. I come down hard on you because you post many things that are seemingly irrelevant along with the interesing stuff. It is hard to weed out what is relevant from the other stuff. Now, can you get a better resolution photo of the symbol? And what evidence is there that this is actually Mr. X is wearing the tie?
Mike
In Bonus Fides, Subject: 1952 Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:00 am
Mike,
Yes I can and HERE is the evidence. Pg 104 INLB. The photo shows better in print and I know YOU have this. Get out your magnifying glass, Mike.
P.S. He is in GREAT shape and just made a MAJOR life move that , in itself, speaks volumes towards his continuing competence and activeness in life. In short, he is NOT too old to be questioned, fingerprinted and cleared/not cleared as a POI in these cases.
P.P.S. No offence taken! I have a clear grasp on how, when, why and and in what respect this is relevent and we can always discuss this via email.
You have mine.
In Bonus Fides, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:26 am
mike_r, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:40 am
Hi-
I have to agree that this photo is interesting. You have a sharp eye! I never noticed the symbol on the tie and I have the source material. It does look an awful lot like that symbol from the Aveny card in the original photo! Very interesting!
Mike
morf13, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:39 am
How can you possibly see what symbol is on that tie?
mike_r, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:44 am
Hi-
If you have the book it is in and get a mangnifying glass, it shows up pretty well. And it does resemble what is on the card.
Mike
morf13, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:53 am
mike_r wrote:Hi-
If you have the book it is in and get a mangnifying glass, it shows up pretty well. And it does resemble what is on the card.
Mike
Any way to enhance/enlarge it better?
mike_r, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:59 am
Hi-
I don't know about photography and taking photos from books and improving the resolution, etc. All I can say at this point is that the symbol is strongly suggestive of the one on the card. Is it a slam dunk for me? No. The bottom one looks more convincing to me than the top one but still I can't say for 100%. I wish I could see it face on but such is life.
I can say that the event for which he is wearing it took place on April 20th, not close to Halloween. My friend thought it might be a tie that someone would wear for Halloween but that does not seem to be the case.
Mike
morf13, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:05 am
mike_r wrote:Hi-
I don't know about photography and taking photos from books and improving the resolution, etc. All I can say at this point is that the symbol is strongly suggestive of the one on the card. Is it a slam dunk for me? No. The bottom one looks more convincing to me than the top one but still I can't say for 100%. I wish I could see it face on but such is life.
I can say that the event for which he is wearing it took place on April 20th, not close to Halloween. My friend thought it might be a tie that someone would wear for Halloween but that does not seem to be the case.
Mike
Mike, can you PM me the name of the book the photo is in, and I can try and look for it and google books? Thanks
mike_r, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:06 am
Hi-
Uh, it's an autobiography. Self-published.
Mike
morf13, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:11 am
mike_r wrote:Hi-
Uh, it's an autobiography. Self-published.
Mike
Okay,Thanks.
Zamantha, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:58 pm
Was reading the forum last nite on my Droid Phone. I was able to use the + to make the pic larger. Gotta tell you the tie design did look like the Z writings on the card. I also find this peculiar.
Whether his guy is the Z or not, he's VERY interesting to look into. It's like you'd like to get inside his head and see what he is thinkin.
mike_r, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:07 pm
Hi-
I finally got a good magnifying glass on the tie. My conclusion is a kind of obvious one. I believe that the symbol is nothing more than a bird on the wing set against the sun as a backdrop. The one "prong" on the left is a wing and the two "prongs" on the right are the other wing (upper prong) and the trailing tail/feet.
It was intriguing at first but I believe this is what they symbol actually is. I believe it has no significance ot the case.
Mike
Zamantha, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:13 pm
mike_r wrote:Hi-
I finally got a good magnifying glass on the tie. My conclusion is a kind of obvious one. I believe that the symbol is nothing more than a bird on the wing set against the sun as a backdrop. The one "prong" on the left is a wing and the two "prongs" on the right are the other wing (upper prong) and the trailing tail/feet.
It was intriguing at first but I believe this is what they symbol actually is. I believe it has no significance ot the case.
Mike
I hear you and what you are saying. And yes you are more then likely right. Unless.... he found a tie that was somewhat similar, his way of playing a game, regardless If he is Z or not. Kinda like when he changed that meeting date on you. Like..was that by accident, on purpose or just playin a game. It seems like more then one of the POI"s likes to play games, wonder what that says about their personality?
, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:05 am
Zamantha wrote:mike_r wrote:Hi-
I finally got a good magnifying glass on the tie. My conclusion is a kind of obvious one. I believe that the symbol is nothing more than a bird on the wing set against the sun as a backdrop. The one "prong" on the left is a wing and the two "prongs" on the right are the other wing (upper prong) and the trailing tail/feet.
It was intriguing at first but I believe this is what they symbol actually is. I believe it has no significance ot the case.
Mike
I hear you and what you are saying. And yes you are more then likely right. Unless.... he found a tie that was somewhat similar, his way of playing a game, regardless If he is Z or not. Kinda like when he changed that meeting date on you. Like..was that by accident, on purpose or just playin a game. It seems like more then one of the POI"s likes to play games, wonder what that says about their personality?
Didn't someone mention that this photo was taken sometime in the 50's? If so, the would preclude any notion of "playing games." Admittedly, I could be mistaken about the photo date.
-tbz
, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:25 am
This may have been covered somewhere else and if so, I apologize.
If Mr. X was born in a foreign country, does he speak with any kind of accent?
Nachtsider, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:44 pm
No accent whatsoever, apparently.
, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:53 pm
Thanks, I was just curious.Nachtsider wrote:No accent whatsoever, apparently.
AK Wilks, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:51 am
I would like to hear an audio of this guy. In my experience most foreign born persons retain some accent.
jay st, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:17 pm
There was an article in Road & Track about Mr X's auto import business in the 60's. He was one of the first to bring foreign soprts cars to the west coast and race them, I used to have the issue, the story was a couple of pages with photos. Has anyone seen it?
Zamantha, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:05 pm
jay st wrote:There was an article in Road & Track about Mr X's auto import business in the 60's. He was one of the first to bring foreign soprts cars to the west coast and race them, I used to have the issue, the story was a couple of pages with photos. Has anyone seen it?
Yeah I'd like to see them.... I'll give you my Email in a PM
I'll seen alot of the race stuff but always would like to see more.
*I have a personal interest in reading all the British Motors/Leyland & Race Stuff. Thanks.
Luke68, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:47 am
Hi Mike
I think your site is down so I might be stating something that you already know. Mr X's hometown was twinned with Vallejo Ca. in 1956.
mike_r, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:48 pm
Hi Luke-
Yeah, that is pretty interesting, isn't it? I wonder what such a clue would do to the geographic profilers, who all say that Z was from Solano County due to the sites of his first kills. There is an amazing array of evidence that links this man to the case, and that is certainly one piece. Mr. Fides told me about that a while back.
It was not 1956, though. More like 1960 but definitely before 1968--and that particular city was the only "twin city" Vallejo had in 1968. There are others now, but they didn't come until after 1968.
Kind of makes you wonder...
Mike
mike_r, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:34 pm
Hi-
I have decided to share some new information about Mr. X. The Zodiac killer did a number of bizarre things that set him apart from other killers--writing letters taking credit for his crimes, threatening children with a "bus bomb," dressing in a garish outfit at Lake Berryessa, etc. But maybe the most intriguing thing he did was to write a message on the door of Bryan Hartnell's car at Lake Berryessa. (Only the car didn't belong to Bryan Hartnell at the time. Did you know that? More later...) This message was Zodiac's ONLY written statement about this crime; he never wrote about it in any of his susbsequent letters to the press.
So why did Z write on Hartnell's car? There have been innumerable theories as to why this is the case over the years. To my knowledge, not one of thme has ever linked Zodiac to this crime and to this crime scene in the manner in which I about to reveal. What follows may be the reason why Zodiac chose to write a message on this particular car door.
The one fact that had continually escaped me until April of this year is that the license plates on Hartnell's white Volkswagen Karmann-Ghia were not from California. Had I been from the west coast, I probably would have imediately recognized that they were not, as I had always mindlessly assumed, California tags. The plates on the car are from OREGON. This was pointed out to me by In Bonus Fides on the Napa Impound Report on the car. That report was available on the Net but I had never stumbled upon it.
This is significant.
The other thing you will learn from the Impound Report is that in 1969, the owner of that white Karmann-Ghia was not Bryan Hartnell. I had only seen the report when it was partically redacted to show that the owner was a Bruce XXXXX. I had assumed (incorrectly once again) that it was "Bruce Hartnell," who I presumed to be Bryan's father. I was wrong yet again. When I finally saw the unredacted version, I saw that the name of the owner was a "Bruce Christie" of Portland, OR. Who the hell was he and why was his name on Bryan's Impound Report?
Mr. Fides suggested I do some research. So I wrote to the Portland Public Library in April of this year and learned that Mr. Christie was apparently involved in the used car business in Portland in the 1960s. What jumped off the page of the email was the fact that in 1964, Bruce Christie was an employee of "R_____a Motors" in Portland.
In the 1960s, Mr. X was the sole, exclusive, only importer of VW's coming into the Pacific Northwest. The name of the business he used to import these cars was none other than R_____a Motors of Portland. Therefore, in 1964, Bruce Christie was an employee of Mr. X's company (which was run by his brother). Put another way, in 1969, Bryan Hartnell was driving a car that was actually owned by an ex-employee of Mr. X! This draws a straight line from Bruce Christie to Mr. X to Bryan Hartnell. (Bryan was probably paying Mr. Christie off for the car in 1969, since Christie probably had some sort of relationship with R_____a Motors whereby he purchased and sold some of their trade-ins. BTW, Christie died in 1972.)
If you were Mr. X and you were Z, when you drove around Lake B that day, it would have taken you about two milliseconds to recognize that a Volkswagen Karmann-Ghia with Oregon plates is a car that you are 99% likely to have imported. The fact that it was owned by Christie seals that deal, since the car is not likely to have been imported in New York by some other importer, driven to Oregon and then sold to Hartnell. There is a direct link between Christie and Mr. X.
I therefore feel that the reason Z wrote on Hartnell's car, even if he chose the couple at random, is that he was providing a clue to the fact that he had a strong personal relationship with this particular car. Now I can prove that the same man who "just happens" to be the only POI ever developed who was spoken to by the police after ANY of the Z crimes, closely resembles the SFPD sketch, and writes on Monarch sized paper, had also imported Hartnell's car and that this car was owned by an ex-employee of Mr. X's.
It doesn't get closer to home than this. I challenge anyone else with a POI in the case to link him into it as intimately as Mr. X can be tied to it, as being the only POIU spoken to by the police and also having direct ties to Hartnell's car. To hell with their DNA! Follow your nose to the truth.
Mike
rand, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:39 pm
Of all the possible links between POIs and Z, having an indirect connection to Hartnell's car is not at the top of my list.
You ask: why did Z write on this door and not the others?
Hmmm. Well...let me see:
1) it was daylight, the other crimes were at night
2) this was the only attack where the victims' bodies were far away from the vehicle
3) Z had time to write on the door
The fact that Z wrote on the door in this crime is not the only thing that distinguishes it from the rest.
1) Z wore a hood and outfit in this crime, not the others
2) Z stabbed his victims; he shot the other known victims
3) Z did this crime during the daytime
4) LB looked more like a ritual murder than the others, which looked like hits
AND
5) Z wrote on Hartnell's door
You challenge those of us who have other POIs to put up. I'm more than willing to "take the Pepsi challenge" and have done so on another thread on this site. I have over 50 detailed links between my POI and Z -- links that go to the core of what we know about Z. You list only four: "Now I can prove that the same man who "just happens" to be the only POI ever developed who was spoken to by the police after ANY of the Z crimes, closely resembles the SFPD sketch, and writes on Monarch sized paper, had also imported Hartnell's car and that this car was owned by an ex-employee of Mr. X's."
So I have to ask: Do you read threads on other POIs? I do, of course, or I wouldn't be here writing this. Follow your nose to the truth, indeed!
mike_r, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:04 pm
Hi Rand-
Thanks for your input. Let's see what others have to say.
Mike
Zamantha, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:49 pm
So far there's only one POI that we know of that signed another car, and that's Mr.X.
mike_r, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:07 pm
Hi Zam-
Thanks for remembering that. There are so many facts that I sometimes lose track of them.
There are images of two cars on the Net that Mr. X signed in felt tip pen, one on the sun visor and one on the dashboard. Aside from being the only POI I know of who can be tied to a crime scene by having been spoken to by the police immediately after, he is also the only one I know of who autographed cars in real life or bought a building with a huge crossed-circle on its facade. He also had a home north of Napa not far from LB. He had a strong interest in speed boats but denied that he knew anything about LB, which was the speed boat cpaital of Northern California at the time. I was not able to find evidence contrary to this statement but that does not mean it is not out there somewhere...Mike
rand, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:14 pm
Has LE taken fingerprint or DNA evidence from Mr. X and compared it with Z's? If so, what did they find?
Also your logic about LE interviewing your POI doesn't strike me as particularly sound.
Most smart serial killers do not commit a murder outside in the vicinity where they live; and 99 out of 100, I suspect, would not be out walking their dog immediately after two cops had just stopped them and asked: did you see a guy with a gun? Why would Z, after the incident with Foukes and Zelms, be out walking his dog in the area where he had just murdered someone? This, in your view, is good evidence in support of your theory that Mr. X was Z?
AK Wilks, Subject: Re: Mr. X background Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:08 pm
Mike R - Its a potentially interesting connection,and some good research by you with an assist for others like IBF. Good job.
I have thought there could be a "VW/German" connection to the case. Cheri Jo Bates drove a VW, and VW keys (not hers)were found on a roof nearby. Several early possible Z cases in the SF and Berkeley area involved bith suspects and victims driving VW's. Then we have Zodiac using a German Luger pistol, and of course the Norse language reference about "SLA". Certainly your POI would know about Norse, I understand that, so did Ted K and Gareth Penn.
One thing is I think with VW's the hood could be open by anyone without a key, thus making the car easier to disable. And it seems a lot of serial killers in the 60's and 70's drove VW's.
The connection you show is interesting. Of course if we believe that the 3 girls saw Zodiac, then it seems like at other locations he was trolling for victims, and likely IMO would not have known Hartnell and Shepard before he saw them. So he probably would not have known what kind of car they drove until the last minute. I don't know that seeing they drove a car he was connected to would have made him more or less likely to kill them. Maybe LESS likely because killingthem creates justsuch a tie to him as the one you found. Maybe MORE likely as sick joke and/ or to increase the thrill by leaving a clue to him.
But its certainly an interesting connection. And as Zam points put your POI had signed cars before. Good job.
In Bonus Fides, Subject: Mr. X Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:17 pm
I have been busy working for AMC TV on a new series in Calgary about the Trans-Continental Railroad called "Hell On Wheels".
It will debut on November 7th on AMC after Mad Men and should be good...........that is why I have been absent for 5 months from the forum.
On today's posting, I have some to add but not much time, so I will be brief and to the point.
FACT 1: Mr X lived at the scene of the Stine murder and was possibly observed by Foukes and Pellisetti entering the residence at 36XX Jackson Street, which is Mr. X's residence since at least 1960.
FACT 2: Mr. X was a strong Libertarian at this time and was involved with the GGBC ( Golden Gate Business Council) which were instrumental in suppressing several uprisings in greater SF , such as People's Park and the Occidental College Riots. Several Zodiac victims including Paul Stine were active with Democratic lawmakers at the time, who largely suppressed these uprisings in collusion with the SFPD. Need a reason to hate big government, Liberals, Hippies and the SFPD like Z did????
FACT 3: Bruce Christie, Mr. X's employee, from 1960-64 was employed as a "Lot Tower Controller" at RXXXXXX Motor's in Beaverton, OR ( which Mr. X owned with his Brother and another individual who has a bearing in this case to Mt. Diablo).
For four years( for Mr. X), he was literally " In control of all things"??
FACT 4 : The impound lot, Biava Motors on Soscal in Napa, was a business that distributed cars ( VW's!!) for Mr. X, and later became his used vehicle distributorship and dealership in greater Napa. Why is this important???? Because that is where Brian Hartnell's.....I mean , Bruce Christie's Kharmann Ghia( that Bryan Hartnell was driving when someone ( Z) tried to kill him) was taken to and stored for weeks after the attack. Straight from Lake Berryessa to Biava on the orders of Officer White, the Park Warden.
I wonder who got all the parts ( sans the door which is still in NPD custody)?????? Well, actually , I KNOW who got the parts.
FACT 5: Mr. X organized the first hill climb for the SCCA in California in 1953(??) and it was on an exclusive ranch owned by his business partner, colleague and friend , who also owned part of RXXXXX Motors , in Beaverton,OR. This is where Mr. Hartnell's..... I mean, Mr. Christie's VW Kharmann Ghia was from.
( Whew!!!........confused yet?? Who's car was the Kharmann?)
The race was called the Mt. Diablo Hill Climb and the property owned by RXXXXXX C JXXXXXX, encompassed the Mountain itself, the surrounding 160 acres and shared a property line and water source with a Mrs. Stella Borges!!!! ( I have a 1972 document that was filed for watershed usage and verifies such).
I would bet that 0, 3, 6, 9 inches along the radian from the Mt. Diablo summit almost all fell on Mr. X's colleague's land.
He also stated in his Autobiographgy how he had "exclusive and immediate access to this beautiful ranch , which helped him consummate several important deals"
FACT 6: Mr. X, as witnessed by several thousand people and listed in all programs, had a car competing in the Riverside International Raceway( LA Times International) on the day of Cheri Jo Bates murder, the day preceeding and possibly a portion of the following day. This is FACT. He was in Riverside that day and I have a program and MANY witnesses to this as his car was top 10.
FACT 7: Mr. X was involved , and remains involved, in the Pythian Lodge and Bohemian Grove, where he has maintained active membership since the early 1960's. Why is this important???? David and Betty Lou , it is believed, were stalked and followed from the Pythian Castle Dance in Vallejo for members and their families. Mr. X was a member of this lodge , enjoying sister status with the # 7 San Francisco Masonic Hall.
http://www.zodiackiller.com/LHRPR30.html
I could go on because there is SO MUCH more but I will leave it at those facts for now as I am out of time but I join Mike in challenging anyone, especially RAND, to be linked to three distinct, different victims/crimescenes as Mr X is??
There is a thread for Troy Houghton ( which last I checked had literally, dozens of active topics) and I suggest that if you want to make this thread about TH then at least show Mike R the proper courtesy of posting it in it's proper thread and/or sub-thread. I respect your research Rand and am not flaming/bashing you but ..........try and keep an open mind to FACTS!
We can and MUST all accept critics but you can not continually hijack a thread without putting up any specific and detailed evidence.....which ,conversely, Mike R nor anyone else can do as per the rules, Morf's rules. They are not allowed with this POI as he is alive at 90, aware he is being scrutinized, and richer than God.
I will leave with a quote of Abraham Lincoln's ; " It is better to remain silent and seem a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"
There is strong evidence here Mike and Bravo for posting it AGAIN!!
P.S. Coming to NYC Nov 7-15th and want to hook up ( wink...wink.. Mike R!!!!) some tickets to NY Rangers vs. Carolina at MSG on Nov 8/2011 and NY Rangers at NY Islanders on Nov 9th.
IBF
:rendeer:
It seems "q" might have been a little awkward for him and he drew them like little 8's.
See more info about him and his pics in Google or Yahoo. There are even little article about him in Wikipedia. Mike Rodelli's site disappeared from the Internet after he published a name of Mr. X on a site and then representatives and lawyers of ***** snatched on him. Earlier ***** agreed to make comparative analysis DNA and, as expected, gene codes his and the Zodiac's didn't coincide. Rodelli didn't calm down on it and continued to insist on the site that "actually the police and FBI have no DNA of Zodiac" (also some other authors of theories about the suspects spoke so).
I guess you don't get rich by turning down easy paychecks, but it's kind of odd regardless.
