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zodiphile wrote:One thought that keeps sticking out to me is this. Let's assume for a moment that KQ is Zodiac. Now lets assume that the police did see and/or talk to him and/or detain him that night. Why would he (if being Z) announce this murder as a Z attack? Even if Z was egotistical beyond belief, why take credit? Many, many, many more man hours are going to be poured into a high profile serial killer case than a cabbie murder/robbery case. I just tend to think that Z was smart enough to slip this murder into his back pocket and go on with his next murder.

Now, this logic would make sense regardless of who Z was. However, if the police really didn't see/talk to him that night, its a lot less risky to send in the shirt pieces and boast about the murder than if he was actually seen/talked to by LE. I just think that if the police actually talked to Z and knew who they were talking to (the police recognizing who KQ was as opposed to DF seeing a man and asking him about suspicious activity then driving along) then its too risky to associate this crime as a Z crime because you can be connected as being in the vicinity of the murder.

Zodiac had a monstrous ego.

This guy couldn't kill someone and then not brag about it.

Yes, but if they had actually spoke with Zodiac that night and he knew he was a possible suspect, I don't think he would have purposely linked himself as the Zodiac killer. If he says nothing and they find out he killed Paul Stine, all they have him for is killing a cab driver.

Some think he was scared of the death penalty so if that WAS the case, it would seem he would have shut up about it.

Tahoe27 wrote:Yes, but if they had actually spoke with Zodiac that night and he knew he was a possible suspect, I don't think he would have purposely linked himself as the Zodiac killer. If he says nothing and they find out he killed Paul Stine, all they have him for is killing a cab driver.

Some think he was scared of the death penalty so if that WAS the case, it would seem he would have shut up about it.

Nah. They would've searched his home and found stuff linking him to all the rest of the murders. The blue felt tip pen and all those sheets of Woolworths' Fifth Avenue paper alone would've given him away.

zodiphile wrote:One thought that keeps sticking out to me is this. Let's assume for a moment that KQ is Zodiac. Now lets assume that the police did see and/or talk to him and/or detain him that night. Why would he (if being Z) announce this murder as a Z attack? Even if Z was egotistical beyond belief, why take credit? Many, many, many more man hours are going to be poured into a high profile serial killer case than a cabbie murder/robbery case. I just tend to think that Z was smart enough to slip this murder into his back pocket and go on with his next murder.

Now, this logic would make sense regardless of who Z was. However, if the police really didn't see/talk to him that night, its a lot less risky to send in the shirt pieces and boast about the murder than if he was actually seen/talked to by LE. I just think that if the police actually talked to Z and knew who they were talking to (the police recognizing who KQ was as opposed to DF seeing a man and asking him about suspicious activity then driving along) then its too risky to associate this crime as a Z crime because you can be connected as being in the vicinity of the murder.

Yes - I've been thinking along the same lines myself. If Z felt that the cops were on to him - or that his close encounter with them had been just a little too close - he could have easily avoided drawing attention to himself and just left LE believing Stine was killed by any old mugger. The fact that he did claim the murder as his own MAY indicate that he wasn't all that worried.

But then again his subsequent letter, where he goes out of his way to say "listen, you don't have my fingerprints and I don't look like your composite" indicates the very opposite.

One may argue that certain things became apparent to Z in between the letters, though. It's likely that he wouldn't have been aware of the teens who witnessed him - nor of the cops securing any prints.

It's hard to tell with Z. We don't know to what extent anything he says (in the letters) reflects any true feelings on his part - all we know is that he got a kick out of writing these letters.

For the sake of argument one could claim that if KQ was Z he might have felt completely safe when he decided to claim responsibility for the murder. Let's say he was picked up, perhaps even brought to the scene for identification - and nothing came out of it. It was apparent to him that the cops would never pursue him as a suspect - because of his status, because he would've been an extremely unlikely suspect, both as a taxi mugger and a serial killer. I don't know - but I don't think this latter angle is completely outlandish. If KQ was Z the "too close to home" aspect of the Stine killing would have been part of the thrill for him - or so one may speculate.

Nachtsider wrote:

Tahoe27 wrote:Yes, but if they had actually spoke with Zodiac that night and he knew he was a possible suspect, I don't think he would have purposely linked himself as the Zodiac killer. If he says nothing and they find out he killed Paul Stine, all they have him for is killing a cab driver.

Some think he was scared of the death penalty so if that WAS the case, it would seem he would have shut up about it.

Nah. They would've searched his home and found stuff linking him to all the rest of the murders. The blue felt tip pen and all those sheets of Woolworths' Fifth Avenue paper alone would've given him away.

I think Zodiac, if he thought they were on to him, would have gotten rid of that stuff.

I was reading a comment made by Toschi earlier and it seems Toschi found Zodiacs decision to ignore Cherry Presdido entrance very odd also. Toschi said "Why turn right and onto Jackson when the Presidio entrance is right there?" He then speculated "It may very well be that Zodiac had a plan and that plan was to stick to a route. Or it may be that he had to stay on that route because he had a specific place in mind that he was going."

Found an extremely rare interview with Don Fouke earlier, one in which he gives while actually parked at the crime scene. He states "I first noticed him walking in the shadows of the trees. As the headlights hit him I noticed it was a white male and continued on." He ends by telling the interviewer: "I think I second guessed myself that night." Interviewer asks "That you should have stopped him?" Fouke ends with "Should have stopped him, should have spoke to him...... But we didn't."

Starts at 2 mins of the clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xE1veHknVo

That interview is extremely interesting.

What Fouke seems to say here (from around 1:15) is that he passed Z on Jackson (looking for a NMA, thus ignoring Z) going towards Arguello Street (sic).

"As we arrived in Arguello Street the description of the suspect was changed to a white male adult..."

No mention of meeting up with Pelissetti at Jackson/Cherry, getting the amended description from him.

Norse wrote:That interview is extremely interesting.

What Fouke seems to say here (from around 1:15) is that he passed Z on Jackson (looking for a NMA, thus ignoring Z) going towards Arguello Street (sic).

"As we arrived in Arguello Street the description of the suspect was changed to a white male adult..."

No mention of meeting up with Pelissetti at Jackson/Cherry, getting the amended description from him.

Yeah that clip of Fouke was filmed and shown on 'Crimes of the Century - Zodiac' and is quite well known and accessible. It's the footage from 2:00 into the video I had never seen before that is much more recent.

And yeah I brought that point up before that you just noticed. Not only does Fouke seem to suggest that he get's the update of the amended description of 'White Male' over his radio and not via A.P on Cherry but, in fact, listen to what he says carefully and he seems to be claiming in this interview that he never even turned off Jackson and South onto Cherry at all! But instead, continued on Jackson going past Maple, past Cherry, and toward the final intersection after Cherry, Arguello and that it is after he has passed Cherry and is approaching Arguello that the radio update comes through.

Now if this version is correct, version 743a (lol) then he can't account for, nor back up, anything that Armond claims to have done because he wouldn't even see him because going past Cherry and approaching Arguello when the radio announces the update of white male suspect, Don has now already passed Shuffling White man using steps to evade police and Don only has to swing right at Arguello (Where he already is) and he's on West Pacific Avenue along the Presidio Wall.

Tahoe27 wrote:I think Zodiac, if he thought they were on to him, would have gotten rid of that stuff.

If they nabbed him that very night, he wouldn't have had the time.

Nachtsider wrote:

Tahoe27 wrote:I think Zodiac, if he thought they were on to him, would have gotten rid of that stuff.

If they nabbed him that very night, he wouldn't have had the time.

Yes...if they nabbed him that night. But if they just spoke with him to where maybe he thought he could be a potential suspect, I would think he wouldn't have continued to tease and gotten rid of anything that could implicate him as Zodiac.