Zodiackillersite.com

Norse wrote:Thanks, guys (and gals) - that's what I thought. The "armed and dangerous" refers to the suspect as such and not any particular person of interest in the investigation.

Does anyone have more info regarding my second point (above), i.e. the guy who was picked up to be identified by one of the kids across the street? I can't find anything substantial on this at all - and now I can't even remember where I came across the reference to this in the first place.

Norse is this what you referring too....

? ? ?

It's unknown at present who the eight year old was, and who he/she identified as Zodiac.

I would love this person to come forward if they are still alive and are aware of such boards as this but I fully respect that individual's right to remain anonymous and not wish to get involved.

But anyway, the speculation is that this eight year old saw Zodiac at the cab and thought "Hang on, I know him, that's.....S0-and-so and told police that he recognised the man that walked away from the cab after wiping it down as Mr. So-and-so.

That cant be what happened and they left it at that, because the kid has only given a name to them at this point, the cops need to get the kid to look at a line up of suspects with 'so-and-so' in amongst the faces and see if he can pick the man out that hes given them the name of....Putting the face to the name basically.

It seems whether he did it that way or was asked to view someone on or around Jackson St on Oct 11 itself after police detained someone suspecting he may be responsible and the kid was driven past suspect on the street and confirmed by pointing "There he is, that's the man who was just at the yellow cab", it doesn't really matter. The key word in the FBI Doc relating to the eight year old and a suspect is simply one telling word: IDENTIFIED.
He had to have physically seen the man in a line up, or on the street and identified 'that guy there' as the same man that was at the cab 6 or 7 minutes ago.

Kjell was certainly a member of Bohemian Grove, a secret Society of elite men that seem to dance around and pay homage to a 20 ft Owl. (See Alex Jones undercover footage on youtube here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtSVBTne-KY A)

Skull and Bones is another high profile secret society.....



'Secret' Pal, skull and bones?

I know the instinctive reaction to this kinda this is to scoff, but before people do and claim Alex Jones is not credible, maybe this man is....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhZk8ronces

Welsh: No - I'm referring to a guy who was apparently picked up and brought to the crime scene so that one of the kids across the street could take a closer look at him.

I can't remember where I came across this - but I do remember that it was in connection with Mr X (as he was known then). I also remember that A. Pelissetti stated that this man was NOT Kjell Q. Did Butterfield interview Pelissetii? If so, it could have been during this interview that the incident was mentioned.

Also - anyone who's in the habit of dancing around a 20ft owl should be considered a suspect in my book!

Norse wrote:Welsh: No - I'm referring to a guy who was apparently picked up and brought to the crime scene so that one of the kids across the street could take a closer look at him.

I can't remember where I came across this - but I do remember that it was in connection with Mr X (as he was known then). I also remember that A. Pelissetti stated that this man was NOT Kjell Q. Did Butterfield interview Pelissetii? If so, it could have been during this interview that the incident was mentioned.

Yeah I had heard whispers of that story that says a cop placed a suspect in the back of their car and I think in the version I heard someone at the scene who see's the guy placed in the patrol car asks the Officers why he's been place in the front of the patrol car and not the back and notices he not handcuffed and the cop says something to the effect of "He's not under arrest."

Ahhhhhhhh, that's why Armond is claiming he walked down Cherry to Jackson, because they are keeping it hush hush that Pelissetti actually drove Kjell away from Jackson & Maple back passed the crime scene. Of course! Makes total sense.

Rite i'll put my entire reputation on this next claim.....

I am going to say now that, should this FOIA request be successful like the previous and they have released another suspects name, then I will say it now and do so with confidence that the unredacted full sentence will read: "FOR INFO IDENT DIVISION, SAN FRANCISCO PD ADVISED EIGHT YEAR OLD WITNESS IN MURDER OF CAB DRIVER IDENTIFIED QVALE AS POSSIBLE SUBJECT IN THE MATTER"

That's it for me, it's plain and obvious why Armond is lying about walking back to that area, because he picked Kjell up after finding him lurking on the drive of 3712 and takes him back to the scene and passed the witnesses who confirm "Yes, that's the man who did it." This is then why the document specifically states that eight year old witnesses not names a suspect, but IDENTIFIES a suspect, because he was at the scene when they brought Kjell back.

If the FOIA is successful and the release the name of the suspect that was seen by the eight year old, then I am absolutely adamant and 100% confident that it will be QUALE who is 'Identified.'

I said all along Zodiac isn't making a direct threat to a bus full of school kids, that threat is symbolic and represents the eight year old that Kjell knows positively identified him as the taxi drivers murder, and subsequently, Zodiac.

I wondered and several of us have discussed the point of Zodiac owning up and taking responsibility for the murder when he knows that three teens, aswel as two cops have seen his face! He could have just said nothing and it would be, probably to this day, an unsolved botched robbery attempt and not linked to Zodiac.

That's why he couldn't wait to get that letter off in the post because Kjell isn't going to go knock the door of these witnesses to threaten them, so he knows this letter will be pasted all over the Chronicle and, whereas before I couldn't really make sense of why he's owned up after being seen by police, I now see why he'd have every reason to write and admit it to let that little eight year old kid know exactly who he's messing with..... I am not just some random cab driver killer, I am the Most wanted, and dangerous, man in California! That school children make nice targets was school child will be a target if he doesn't keep his mouth shut.

Zodiac even went on to admit it was not ever even about a school bus and states it as thought they re idiots for even thinking that. He says "If you cops think I am going to take on a school bus the way I stated I would, you deserve to have holes in your heads." In other words "Stop following school busses with armed guards you idiots, I was threatening the kid who saw and identified me."

Kjell was caught that night because he hung around the cab as though he didn't give a sh*t. Thats why the current SFPD Chief threatens his detectives to stay away from the file and case not only in official police work time, but also he said they'd be fired if they tried to investigate it on their own after work and in their own time. That again explains why Mysteryquest was told 'No' when asking for DNA they hold potentially from Zodiact so they could compare it to Gaik....SFPD are do0ne with it because those with a 'Need to know' basis already know the case is solved and Kjell Qvale was Zodiac.

That's why he stopped killing. We've all been told that these type of killers don't just stop because they can't. I've also said over and over how Zodiac is an attention seeking, publicity craving media whore who overnight decides "I shall no longer announce my kills..." Yeah, because you had to and had to stop killing because they knew who you are! I bet you SFPD took possession of Paul's wallet from Kjell himself!

Well, my dear chap - it's a very interesting theory, I'll give you that.

I have a problem with this, though:

That's it for me, it's plain and obvious why Armond is lying about walking back to that area, because he picked Kjell up after finding him lurking on the drive of 3712 and takes him back to the scene and passed the witnesses who confirm "Yes, that's the man who did it." This is then why the document specifically states that eight year old witnesses not names a suspect, but IDENTIFIES a suspect, because he was at the scene when they brought Kjell back.

What you're suggesting is that AP went to 3712 (by car) after his meeting with Fouke (where he learned that F. had passed a white male at said location). He then picked up Z/KQ and went back to the crime scene, where one of the kids identified him. Correct?

Why take him back to the crime scene? I'm not suggesting this is an outlandish idea, but it needs clarification. Had one of the kids already told him, AP, that he or she had recognized the suspect? Or was AP sure at that point that he had stumbled across someone who might well be the suspect - and decided to drive him back to the kids to see if they per chance recognized him?

Lastly, do you think - given what you suggest here - that the 8yr old witness was in fact one of the kids across the street (and thus that the info in the FBI document is incorrect regarding the witness' age)?

For what it's worth I think this whole business with witnesses recognizing local persons, people being picked up and driven to the crime scene, dog walkers roaming about - the whole thing - may be very important, regardless of who Z was.

Welsh Stated:

"No - I'm referring to a guy who was apparently picked up and brought to the crime scene so that one of the kids across the street could take a closer look at him.

I can't remember where I came across this - but I do remember that it was in connection with Mr X (as he was known then)."
KjelI wasn't known as Mr. X in 1969... That label was put on him in the Z boards. By those who wanted to press their theory, and were intimated by Kjell's threats to legally deal with them, that's where Mr. X came from. They were the only folks intimidated by Kjell, and these same folks wish to sell that somehow the entire SFPD was intimidated by Kjell, no it was only those on the Z Boards who were intimidated. If you doubt that go back and read through TV's Board

"also remember that A. Pelissetti stated that this man was NOT Kjell Q. Did Butterfield interview Pelissetii? If so, it could have been during this interview that the incident was mentioned."
How are we to remember something that no one has ever heard from AP's mouth? You're telling the board to remember this statement and then you state you don't even know where it came from. I question this kind of logic.

"Yeah I had heard whispers of that story that says a cop placed a suspect in the back of their car and I think in the version I heard someone at the scene who see's the guy placed in the patrol car asks the Officers why he's been place in the front of the patrol car and not the back and notices he not handcuffed and the cop says something to the effect of "He's not under arrest."
Ahhhhhhhh, that's why Armond is claiming he walked down Cherry to Jackson, because they are keeping it hush hush that Pelissetti actually drove Kjell away from Jackson & Maple back passed the crime scene. Of course! Makes total sense.

To You it makes sense, cause you've already created your own theory, well it's not even your theory, someone else invented it. So AP takes a suspect, back to the scene has the kid walk out from his house,, go up to the cop car, ID KJell, and then AP tells the kid ok junior TY go back to your house now? Wow, wonder cause by now mom and dad are at the house. Being a parent if some cop suggested that I'd tell him to go to hell. You're not setting my family up. And then they wouldn't arrest Kjell on the spot? Wasn't that the purpose of supposedly doing this, if they got an ID from the kid then they would have good cause to arrest the guy. except if they did anything to Kjell the DA would have to throw it out, and never use that kid as a witness again. The witness has been tainted, cause SFPD wouldn't be following standard procedure on ID'ing a suspect, you know in a line up where the kid is totally protected from the suspect. Also, AP picks up Kjell to take to kids to ID as a possible murderer, now AP of course throws all caution to the wind, he doesn't pat Kjell down, can't see the bulges in Kjell's pockets, a gun, Stine's shirt, wallet and keys, can't smell the blood from the shirt, just simply allows a maybe killer to enter his squad car, and then takes him in front of this kid, armed and dangerous.
And the SFPD did all this cause???? they never wanted to solve the case, and were afraid of KQ? See that's what you are buying into. The only one afraid of KJell, again was those posting on boards and Kjell let them know if they didn't stop it he'd sue the crap out of them, he'd shut down the sites, and rightly so, unless you have some evidence. So they the board folks labelled him Mr. X.

Rite i'll put my entire reputation on this next claim.....

" I am going to say now that, should this FOIA request be successful like the previous and they have released another suspects name, then I will say it now and do so with confidence that the unredacted full sentence will read: "FOR INFO IDENT DIVISION, SAN FRANCISCO PD ADVISED EIGHT YEAR OLD WITNESS IN MURDER OF CAB DRIVER IDENTIFIED QVALE AS POSSIBLE SUBJECT IN THE MATTER"
That's it for me, it's plain and obvious why Armond is lying about walking back to that area, because he picked Kjell up after finding him lurking on the drive of 3712 and takes him back to the scene (again doesn't pat Kjell down at all...) and passed the witnesses who confirm "Yes, that's the man who did it." This is then why the document specifically states that eight year old witnesses not names a suspect, but IDENTIFIES a suspect, because he was at the scene when they brought Kjell back."

So Kjell is Id'd, SFPD ignores it, the FBI ignores it. That makes sense.

If the FOIA is successful and the release the name of the suspect that was seen by the eight year old, then I am absolutely adamant and 100% confident that it will be QUALE who is 'Identified.'

Could be bad news for all of us waiting on FOIA's. I heard last week on the news the President had put a big cabash on FOIA requests, I haven't heard the details of what he has done, and to what extent this roadblock will cause folks, but it could be significant to all requests, I don't know.

I said all along Zodiac isn't making a direct threat to a bus full of school kids, that threat is symbolic and represents the eight year old that Kjell knows positively identified him as the taxi drivers murder, and subsequently, Zodiac.
I wondered and several of us have discussed the point of Zodiac owning up and taking responsibility for the murder when he knows that three teens, aswel as two cops have seen his face! He could have just said nothing and it would be, probably to this day, an unsolved botched robbery attempt and not linked to Zodiac."

Again this is false, you're ignoring the known facts. Z, while in the cab, takes the keys, Stine's Wallet, and tears off a piece of Stine's shirt. He knows what he's going to do with the shirt as he's ripping it. And he does just what he had planned, so nothing had happened that would have altered that plan


That's why he couldn't wait to get that letter off in the post because Kjell isn't going to go knock the door of these witnesses to threaten them, so he knows this letter will be pasted all over the Chronicle and, whereas before I couldn't really make sense of why he's owned up after being seen by police, I now see why he'd have every reason to write and admit it to let that little eight year old kid know exactly who he's messing with..... I am not just some random cab driver killer, I am the Most wanted, and dangerous, man in California! That school children make nice targets was school child will be a target if he doesn't keep his mouth shut.

I doubt this child ever got near a Chronicle, or got to hear any news reports on TV. That would be the norm response by parents, to protect their child. Be absolutely no reason why a parent is going to allow their child to relive the nightmare they've already seen.

" Zodiac even went on to admit it was not ever even about a school bus and states it as thought they re idiots for even thinking that. He says "If you cops think I am going to take on a school bus the way I stated I would, you deserve to have holes in your heads." In other words "Stop following school busses with armed guards you idiots, I was threatening the kid who saw and identified me."

This reasoning of Z's always makes me laugh, the cops are the idiots for reacting to a homicidal maniac. Who deserves to have the holes in their heads Z? This was your idea Z, not LE's. Once Z saw how the police reacted, he thought he would use it against the police. But if anyone thought about it, it was the maniacs idiotic idea. And who knows it may have just pissed Z off to see the reaction of police dept's. throughout the Bay Area, and stopped him from his plan. There are no other known words, let alone to put them in quotes, as if anyone knows just what Z was thinking

" Kjell was caught that night because he hung around the cab as though he didn't give a sh*t." Really,I thought his actions were to cover his trails, get his trophies and split. The kids never stated he was just killing time, or just hanging around the cab. But hanging around 3712 Jackson, that makes sense to you. whatever...

"Thats why the current SFPD Chief threatens his detectives to stay away from the file and case not only in official police work time, but also he said they'd be fired if they tried to investigate it on their own after work and in their own time (according to whom???). That again explains why Mysteryquest was told 'No' when asking for DNA they hold potentially from Zodiact so they could compare it to Gaik....SFPD are do0ne with it because those with a 'Need to know' basis already know the case is solved and Kjell Qvale was Zodiac."

LE always looks at the evidence in a case as a needs to know basis. Maybe the chief is saying look I know about all these Z sleuths out there, and they'll take up time we don't have. The Stine Case was but one murder in a string of thousands in the past 45 years. We have to deal with today's murders and not chase ghosts that have been investigated. That's what you're assigned to do, that's your job. the Zodiac Case was other folks jobs in their days, that's what they were paid to do.

"That's why he stopped killing. (You don't know that at all) We've all been told that these type of killers don't just stop because they can't. I've also said over and over how Zodiac is an attention seeking, publicity craving media whore who overnight decides "I shall no longer announce my kills..." (that's right the persona of Z was attention seeking. You think the person we knew as Z began his killing hobby on 12/20/68? and quit on 10/11/69? I think he killed before the Bay Area ever knew him as Z, and there's no reason for me to think he stopped on 10/11/69. He said he wouldn't. He just stopped writing about it, like he did before he became Z.

"Yeah, because you had to and had to stop killing because they knew who you are! I bet you SFPD took possession of Paul's wallet from Kjell himself!" [b](And they missed the shirt?)
[/b]

SFPD knew who Z was and did nothing about it, and that to you would be a reason to stop? That makes no sense. That would be a great reason to continue. Hey, they're not going to do anything about it because its Kjell, and now, according to you Kjell knows this, so might as well continue, In SF anyway. Narlow and others may not share this free pass to murderers, as you believe SFPD does. But what you just stated here gives Kjell a free pass for life to kill in the City.
The persona that's painted about Kjell, has been painted by those who didn't even know the man. Was he assertive, no nonsense, bold, I bet he was. you don't do what he did in life by being meek. All those qualities are the exact opposite of Z. Z is a coward, he kills in isolated places mostly, and always runs away and hides. He lives in fear, the fear of being caught. He is only bold in print, in his writings, never in his actions. He is and always will be a coward. The exact opposite of Kjell.

Norse wrote:Well, my dear chap - it's a very interesting theory, I'll give you that.

I have a problem with this, though:

That's it for me, it's plain and obvious why Armond is lying about walking back to that area, because he picked Kjell up after finding him lurking on the drive of 3712 and takes him back to the scene and passed the witnesses who confirm "Yes, that's the man who did it." This is then why the document specifically states that eight year old witnesses not names a suspect, but IDENTIFIES a suspect, because he was at the scene when they brought Kjell back.

What you're suggesting is that AP went to 3712 (by car) after his meeting with Fouke (where he learned that F. had passed a white male at said location). He then picked up Z/KQ and went back to the crime scene, where one of the kids identified him. Correct?

Why take him back to the crime scene? I'm not suggesting this is an outlandish idea, but it needs clarification. Had one of the kids already told him, AP, that he or she had recognized the suspect? Or was AP sure at that point that he had stumbled across someone who might well be the suspect - and decided to drive him back to the kids to see if they per chance recognized him?

Lastly, do you think - given what you suggest here - that the 8yr old witness was in fact one of the kids across the street (and thus that the info in the FBI document is incorrect regarding the witness' age)?

For what it's worth I think this whole business with witnesses recognizing local persons, people being picked up and driven to the crime scene, dog walkers roaming about - the whole thing - may be very important, regardless of who Z was.

"Why take him back to the crime scene?"

Well A.P knew the kids had seen the suspect at the cab and A.P must have asked what he looked like because he found out he was a white guy. So the obvious motive for doing this would be so see if the witness could positively identify him as the suspect. But Maybe it was the other way around and the suspect wasn't taken to where the kid was, but the kid taken in a patrol can to where officer had stopped suspect. Maybe Armond radioed for someone at the scene to ask them to bring one of the witnesses around the block to Jax & Mple to observe a suspect he had stopped on the street.

But BayArea60's has decided: "To You it makes sense, cause you've already created your own theory."

*Sigh.* I'll say it one final time, the FBI report states unequivocally that eight year old witness "IDENTIFIED" _____ as possible suspect. Now Bay, the English definition of the word Identify, as you well know, is: To establish or indicate who or what (someone or something) is." The word identify is also synonymous with: Single out, point out, knowing by sight, distinguish and discern.
Now unless your going to argue that the FBI document reads: "Eight year old witness in murder of cab driver identified *Nobody* as possible subject in the matter" then he must have identified somebody and the only way to identify someone or something is to physically see them or it after the fact and say "Yes, that him" or "Yes, that's the wallet I lost last week" for example.

If this eight year old had told police that he thought he recognised the man that he saw as being so-and-so who, lets say for example, worked with his father, then the FBI report would say so, it would probably say something like "Witness thought he recognised suspect as so-and-so" or "Witness was sure that responsible is so-and-so from such and such." When you give a name to police your doing just that, supplying information about someone you suspect. When a Police FBI report declares that you have 'identified' so-and-so, then that can only mean that you pointed him out specifically as the person responsible.

"Lastly, do you think - given what you suggest here - that the 8yr old witness was in fact one of the kids across the street?"

Yes and No... :-/

Yes because they are the only witnesses that appear in the official police reports as seeing the crime and suspect.

No because this witness is Eight. The three witnesses who are listed in the report also have their ages listed, and none of them were eight.

Maybe he was at the house with the three teens but police felt that, given the nature of the crime and the fact he'd identified someone, it would be safer and in the childs interest not to list him in the official report because, after all, he was only Eight. But I really don't know.

And BayArea60's you say:

Welsh Chappie said: " I'm referring to a guy who was apparently picked up and brought to the crime scene so that one of the kids across the street could take a closer look at him."

Yes I did didn't I except for the fact the I didn't. Mis-quoting me is one thing, mis-identifying is another. Scroll up and you'll find that was not my comment, but Norse's in response to me asking which witness they were referring to.

I don't mind someone having issue with, or arguing against, something I have proposed, I just request that it be something I did actually say lol.