Zodiackillersite.com

Tahoe...

" You have pointed Fouke's inconsistencies out a lot. Why now do you take his word for 3712 Jackson? (asking genuinely)

Perfectly good question, and i'll answer Below...

It is not simply because Fouke said it that I believe it as the question implies, but rather a mixture of several things. Firstly, Motive. Would Zodiac have a motive for doing what Fouke said he did and turn into a driveway? Answer: Absolutely! In fact, it was imperative for Zodiac not to allow them to see the front of his trousers when he's is close enough to notice the fresh blood stains all down the front of them. So Zodiac had more than enough Motive to do what Fouke claims, that motive being his very freedom taken followed by, in all likelihood, his life by the State.
Secondly, Fouke's comment of suspects hair possibly greying at the rear now makes sense because we know that now in this scenario make perfect sense because any person ascending the steps and approaching the home would be positioned with his back to the road and any passing Patrol Vehicle on it.

Tahoe I know that there are other individuals at other sites that will gladly accept something that, for example, Mageau said as truth and credible when it helps their agenda or supports their own claims and theories, and yet will dismiss him as not credible in another where his comment seems to be at odds with their theory, but I am not one of them. What difference would it make to me if Zodiac went up some steps or not? What agenda would I have to say I believe Fouke about 3712? I have no underlying cause when it comes to 3712 Jackson vs North on Maple to decide one is more likely than the other. I just simply think, given the two contrasting versions two chose from, I personally think that one makes sense logically as it's what you may expect someone to do in those circumstances, while the other one if it were true would leave me asking why it wasn't though suspicious when a man is observed walking away from a crime scene close by and heading intoan alcove that leads nowhere other than onto a vast amount of foliage and darkness that is exactly where you may expect someone to go if they had just committed a homicide just around the corner.
And the response to the Stine incident was instant remember, Zodiac hadn't left the cab itself and 911 was being informed of it and Fouke said, which Pelissetti confirms, that Fouke pulled up next to Pellisetti as he was waling down Cherry and Pellisetti told him the suspect was white, at which point Fouke instantly span around is his car and went straight to the Presidio and all responding and available units also emerged on the area. This means that if Zodiac was anywhere actually in the park of wooded area, then the hunter had become the hunted and he was totally surrounded and is a sitting duck. With the manpower they had searching the park along with the equipment they used such as huge powerful search lights that would allow then extremely good visibility, and Chief Lee's words of the area search as having beem "Tree by Tree and Bush by Bush - A mouse couldn't have escaped our attention" I would put my money on Zodiac not being in that park. But wherever he was it had to be close for two reasons. 1. He had no time to get any distance before the police converged on and had the area cordoned. 2. He must have been some close enough to see the search because he told them where the bikes went and where the cars were parked along West Pacific and the distance between the two groups of them.

This is the commonly accepted point that Zodiac used to make his escape. Obviously this is where he would have been if he was last seen going North on Maple.

But just to give some sort of visual perspective as to the alternate, far quicker and safer entrance onto the same stretch of road (W. Pacific Avenue)?


The barrier seen directly to the left in the photo is the wall entrance from Maple street. The red arrow is the entrance area that is atop of Cherry st. If he knew this entrance was available to him why wouldn't he take it if he was truly intending to escape by "dashing into the Presidio?"

Welsh Chappie wrote:Here is the page that can be found in the Official Online Vault of FBI files and records....

Stine Witness Doc..jpg

Can someone fill me in on who this person is?

BuckwheatFlowers wrote:

Welsh Chappie wrote:Here is the page that can be found in the Official Online Vault of FBI files and records....

Stine Witness Doc..jpg

Can someone fill me in on who this person is?

That is what is frustrating, nobody knows who the Eightv year old was or where he saw the suspect, and we don't know who it was he named as the Suspect.

I've said for a while now that we all think this case is so complicated and "Crack-Proof" and we may have had the answer staring us in the face all along if we only could discover either who the eight year old was and/or who he named. This eight year old is probably still alive today and he may hold the key to one of Americas biggest unsolved mysteries. Not saying that he does or is eve likely too, but until we know and ask we won't know

Lots of conversations have taken place on this topic over the years....The 8 year old boy, well we just don't know. Where was the boy, where did he see the man he knew? We know the 8 year old boy and the man he knew would have been spoken to in depth, and this man was not considered a suspect. I'd love to read the follow up on this report. What did SFPD and FBI do with it?
I think folks got off track on Z saying "Over there by Wash and Maple". I think Z knew PH. And he makes the statement in his letter to let cops know he was the same guy written about in Stine's fare book. If he mentions he 's the one who killed PS at Wash and Cherry, well no duh, that's where the cops find PS and his cab. To me he's giving the cops a detail, that only the killer would know, and the fare Stine picked up in the Theater District.
Pellessetti is the key guy to me. From here on I'll refer to Foukes as "F" and Pellessetti as "P". P states he was close, very close to Cherry & Wash when he received the call. I believe he was, but unlike F who states exactly where he was, we don't know. We know that once Z turned down Cherry and began heading N. towards the park it's about 361' I think to Jackson. I don't have my notes in front of me. If P was within a minute, Z could not get to Jackson before P rolls up at Wash and Cherry. P rolls up to cherry and stops his squad car in front of cab half out on cherry. I believe Z sees P roll up and if he had any intention of continuing N. on Cherry that would kill that idea.
We know F states he was on Presidio approaching Wash. when he received the call about a black guy who robbed a cabbie. At this point F is less than 1 minute from meeting up with P at Cherry and Jackson. That to me proves the call that P answered, and the call that F answered are 2 separate dispatches. There's no way P could do all the things he did, with the kids, observing Stine, and supposedely calling in update from black guy to white guy, and from robber to killer, it P & F rec'd. the same dispatch. Just impossible I don't believe P at all there. I don't think he ever put in the 2nd call before heading N. on Cherry in search of killer. F would have been updated before seeing Z. F never gets another dispatch, he learns from P that there has been a murder, by a white guy. It's F who calls in telling dispatch of his encounter, and that he saw suspect heading/turning N. onto Maple. F later states he never saw suspect at Maple, only assumed suspect was heading towards park.
In Z's 1st letter I think it arrived on the 14th, he only reports the actions that took place in the park from someone who could hear what was going on. The cops lit that park up like a ballfield, Z never mentions that, he never mentions the dogs. for sure he would have mentioned the dogs if he were being hunted by them. He only mentions what he could hear. In another message I'll share my experience in the park around July/Aug. 1970 with a Nam Canine Trainer and what he had to say about Z being in the park.

[quote="Bayarea60s"]Lots of conversations have taken place on this topic over the years....The 8 year old boy, well we just don't know. Where was the boy, where did he see the man he knew? We know the 8 year old boy and the man he knew would have been spoken to in depth, and this man was not considered a suspect. I'd love to read the follow up on this report. What did SFPD and FBI do with it?

Well we can assume that the law spoke to whoever this child named. And yes, nothing seems to have come from it. But how do we know that the police didn't eliminate him as a suspect because someone gave him a false alibi? Also, whoever the kid saw must have had a reason to suspect him and this can only really be down to one of two things.
1. The kid saw the man at or leaving the taxi or 2, he saw him on Jackson St, for example, and though he saw red stains on the front of his cloths. I mean otherwise you'd expect the kid to simply make a statement saying he witnessed 'Mr Smith' in the area walking at time of incident. That isn't how it's worded in the FBI Document. The FBI Doc. suggests that the Eight year old isn't simply stating he saw someone in the area that night and is coming forward as a witness, he states quite clearly, judging from the FBI Doc. that the name he gave them was possibly responsible.

I also think Z probably knew P.H fairly well. Serial Killers tend to strike where the feel comfortable doing so and don't tend to cross into area or districts where they do not know the lay of the land.

"We know F states he was on Presidio approaching Wash. when he received the call about a black guy who robbed a cabbie. At this point F is less than 1 minute from meeting up with P at Cherry and Jackson. That to me proves the call that P answered, and the call that F answered are 2 separate dispatches. There's no way P could do all the things he did, with the kids, observing Stine, and supposedely calling in update from black guy to white guy, and from robber to killer, it P & F rec'd. the same dispatch. Just impossible I don't believe P at all there. I don't think he ever put in the 2nd call before heading N. on Cherry in search of killer. F would have been updated before seeing Z. F never gets another dispatch, he learns from P that there has been a murder, by a white guy. It's F who calls in telling dispatch of his encounter, and that he saw suspect heading/turning N. onto Maple. F later states he never saw suspect at Maple, only assumed suspect was heading towards park.
In Z's 1st letter I think it arrived on the 14th, he only reports the actions that took place in the park from someone who could hear what was going on. The cops lit that park up like a ballfield, Z never mentions that, he never mentions the dogs. for sure he would have mentioned the dogs if he were being hunted by them. He only mentions what he could hear. In another message I'll share my experience in the park around July/Aug. 1970 with a Nam Canine Trainer and what he had to say about Z being in the park."[/quote]

Well I've said in other posts that I just don't see how Zodiac appears at J'son & M'ple intersection when Fouke approaches it because Pelissetti claims to have walked down Jackson as far as Maple (encounters a man walking dog) turn and walks back up Jackson and it's as he turns left onto Cherry, Zodiac now seems to appear from nowhere for the Fouke encounter, and the 'dog walker' also seems to have vanished.

WC, do you know if there were any school bus routes down the streets you suggest as possible POI's whereabouts/home?

the kid probably saw X, Gaik or somebody who lived nearby...me kinda thinks Z was long gone..I have about zero faith in any witness at the stine scene..the 8 year old kid does intrigue me..wonder whose name he gave that was redacted,,black ink likes kinda short so that puts me right back at X or Gaik or some body else who resided in the neighborhood...

TruthSeeker wrote:WC, do you know if there were any school bus routes down the streets you suggest as possible POI's whereabouts/home?

I don't know but my own theory on Z's threat to wipe out a school bus is that his threat is not literal but symbolic, so to speak. Zodiac himself stated shortly after making the threat that:

"If you cops think I'm going to take on a bus the way I stated I was, you deserve to have holes in your heads."

To me Zodiac is all but telling us here that the 'school bus' and 'Kiddies' were never in danger and the threat was symbolic being school bus = a person of school age and the kiddies was actually one specific Kid, that eight year old. His wording is quite telling in that he says "If you cops think I'm going to take on a bus the way I stated I was..." He is telling you the way he said it was not Important or relevant, the child of school age was. He ends the sentence by seeming to suggest that if they take everything he says as literal and can't see the hidden message or meaning then that isn't his fault and if they were stupid enough to read his threat literally and not see what or who it was specifically directed at then they "deserve to have holes in your heads."

And I honestly now believe that the answer to the questions that appears in this threads title, that being 'Zodiac ignores Cherry st Presidio escape, is this why?' consists of a two word answer: First word: KJELL. Second: QVALE.