Mason & Geary area.

[Norse]

What I have gone by, when it comes to this, is that SFPD had Stine's log - his "trip sheet" (yet another term for the same thing) - which stated clearly that he was going to Maple/Wash. The latter was an added fare he took on - clearly someone who hailed him - while en route to a specified address (can't remember which, but this is well known - as per the records of the cab company) to pick up someone who had called (per telephone) for a cab.

So, Z hailed him, asked whether Stine could take him to Wash./Maple, Stine said alright (this being more or less on his way to wherever he was going to pick up the client who had called for a cab), Stine made a note of this fare (on his trip sheet) and then drove on - and we all know what happened next.

This is what happened as far as I know. Exactly where he picked up Z - and whether the precise location would be recorded on his trip sheet (or elsewhere) - I do not know.

[BillRobison]

Norse (and everyone else:)

What I can't understand is, if SFPD knew what was in Stine's waybill, then why were they looking all over Nob Hill? Jim Wood's article doesn't say that one detective or source told him they were. The article says every available man was scouring Nob Hill looking for potential witnesses.

Either Power made the whole thing up, which doesn't make Zodiac look any more reliable, or he personally picked up the waybill. But even if he did, why didn't he turn it over to SFPD after he got his "scoop?" There don't seem to be any more Zodiac articles by Power after the brief one about the Zodiac conference. Did police come to a conclusion at that conference that got Power into hot water? He wasn't fired. Just taken off the Zodiac story. If he got into trouble, it didn't involve handing over the waybill. Not according to Jim Wood's article.

Weird.

[murray]

Norse (and everyone else:)

What I can't understand is, if SFPD knew what was in Stine's waybill, then why were they looking all over Nob Hill? Jim Wood's article doesn't say that one detective or source told him they were. The article says every available man was scouring Nob Hill looking for potential witnesses.

Either Power made the whole thing up, which doesn't make Zodiac look any more reliable, or he personally picked up the waybill. But even if he did, why didn't he turn it over to SFPD after he got his "scoop?" There don't seem to be any more Zodiac articles by Power after the brief one about the Zodiac conference. Did police come to a conclusion at that conference that got Power into hot water? He wasn't fired. Just taken off the Zodiac story. If he got into trouble, it didn't involve handing over the waybill. Not according to Jim Wood's article.

Weird.

There is probably a lot we don't know about why certain things were done from within the SFPD, especially with this case and at this time. Not to mention the friction between reporters and detectives.

Regardless, I wonder if the caller for the cab that had Stine heading toward the Wash/Maple address was ever questioned? Forgive me if I've missed this in the reports or discussions...

[Norse]

The address Stine was headed to was: 500, 9th Ave.

I don't know if the person(s) who requested the cab was ever questioned.

[BillRobison]

According to a cab company source, Someone called for a cab to come to 500 9th. Stine was radio dispatched to that address. The Someone at that address called back because no cab had arrived, and another cab was dispatched there.

Nothing unusual about that at all. The savvy thing for Stine to do was drive down Mason and see if he couldn't pick up another fare along the way, since there was a good chance that Someone could have gotten in another cab by the time he got to 500 9th street.

In the Yellow Book, Graysmith claims that Toschi and Armstrong had the trip sheet, and visited every destination of every passenger from that whole day, looking for all the potential riders that day. But again, SFPD were looking all over Nob Hill, and the only specific destination on the bulletin is Washington and Laurel. Since there are a 100 or more falsehoods in the Yellow Book, one tends to believe Jim Wood over Robert Graysmith.

If Power was right, then why did Graysmith leave him and his scoop out of the Yellow Book? Graysmith claims Bob Popp was the regular Chronicle reporter covering SFPD that weekend, but that's another falsehood. Popp covered Oakland PD until 1971. He knows the name of the secretary who opened the October 13 letter, he knows that Peter Stack supposedly hand carried that letter and piece of Stine's shirt to SFPD, but he didn't know that Power that supposedly confirmed Zodiac's supposedly erroneous Washington and Maple? It wasn't a secret. It was among the regular Chronicle articles published the week after the shooting. As an employee, Graysmith undoubtedly had access to the Chronicles microfiche archives.

Graysmith plagiarized a lot of articles from other newspapers and passed the information off as original interviews with the witness or cop. He didn't even plagiarize this one by Power. He doesn't mention Power at all. He claims that Avery was the reporter covering the Stine murder from day one.

After October 21, Paul Avery, Duffy Jennings, even Baron Muller wrote Zodiac stories for the Chronicle. But not Keith Power. Post hoc. Ergo, propter hoc?

Either Power lied, and that means Zodiac was more or less wrong after all, or Power possessed a piece of evidence he never handed over to SPFD. And Graysmith pretends the whole thing never happened.

Weird.

[Norse]

Question: Would Stine's location at the time when he received the 9th Ave call have been logged (by him, on his trip sheet)?

I don't think it would have. He would have made a note of going to Wash./Maple - that's it. So, that would have been all the info anyone (Power and the cops) could have gotten from that trip sheet.

I seem to recall now that I think about it that the cops looked at Stine's meter - and that the pick-up location (where Z hailed Stine) was calculated from that: using common sense (Stine would have gone to the busy theater district from the airport, as you would) plus the meter, and you end up somewhere round Mason/Geary.

"Washington/Laurel" could be a simple screw-up from whoever worded that bulletin. As for Graysmith/Power - no idea. It does seem odd that he doesn't mention Power at all - he would have known, being right at the center of the thing at the time.

Bill: when you say that Power may have had evidence he didn't share, are you referring to the trip sheet/waybill?

[BillRobison]

Norse:

Ask Keith Power. He's still alive, and living in Napa. According to HIS article, which is posted on THIS website on a different thread, HE got the Mason and Geary, and Washington and Maple, from the waybill. Then he got kicked off the Zodiac story and ignored by Graysmith. For some reason.

According to Jim Wood, AND SFPD's own bulletins, they knew nothing of this Mason and Geary OR Washington and Maple business. Even AFTER Power's story ran in the Chronicle.

Let's say you're onto something, and Stine maybe "wouldn't have" written down Mason and Geary. He was suppose to, since he was responsible for his waybill matching his meter, but what the heck. Let's suppose.

Well, then, that means Power fabricated his story. And that means he was covering up for Zodiac's mistake. Why "would" he do THAT?

On the other hand, if Power simply walked out to the parking garage, snooped through the front seat of the cab, and picked up the waybill and stuck it in his jacket and walked out with it on his way to the Chronicle building to type his story, that would explain BOTH his story AND the police "confusion."

It would also explain why Zodiac's fingerprints are on the drivers door of Stine's cab, AND the little list letter, but NOT on the Napa phone booth. It would also explain how Zodiac knew about the blonde, heavyset "suspect" Fouke and Zelms had seen walking up Maple (not Cherry; Maple) toward the park, even though, according to three eyewitnesses, who were reinterviewed by police a week later, just to be sure, he couldn't have been the same man they saw robbing Stine and wipeing down the cab doors. That suspect was never mentioned in the papers, so we don't know how Zodiac knew about him. We know that one Chronicle/Examiner reporter knew about him, but there's no byline on that story.

Since we suspect Power of taking at least one piece of Stine evidence, maybe he also took . . . Nah. That's too simple. Besides, we'd have to explain how he had a copy of Hoffman's report about BRS. On July 6, the Chronicle published a story about that shooting (no byline) that is practically verbatim from Hoffman's report. Except the bit about the passenger door of Darlene's car door being torn open. In his letter, Zodiac corrects the Chronicle on that very point. He even imitates Hoffman's spelling and style. He doesn't correct the number of shots fired, though. (7, according to Hoffman's report and the Chronicle story.) He only corrects the ONE thing that's different between Hoffman's report and the story in the Chronicle. The other two shell casings are mentioned in Lynch's report, but it was not typed until several days later.

In his second letter, Zodiac claims he left BRS slowly and quietly, even though BOTH Mike Mageau AND George Bryant said he didn't. In his July 5 report, the one the Chronicle reporter copied, Hoffman mentions Meyring and Lindemann stopping Andy N. Jr leaving BRS slowly and quietly. That suspect was never mentioned in the papers, either. A Chronicle reporter and Zodiac BOTH had a copy of Hoffman's report, but not Lynch's . . .

Nah. Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah . . . That's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy too simple. Besides, it's not even a mystery.

[Norse]

Let's say you're onto something, and Stine maybe "wouldn't have" written down Mason and Geary. He was suppose to, since he was responsible for his waybill matching his meter, but what the heck. Let's suppose.

Good point. I was thinking that he wouldn't have logged it since the Z fare was something he picked up en route to his 9th Ave destination - but yes, I suppose he would have logged his starting point regardless, if he was indeed required to do so as per the policy of the cab company.

Which means that anyone who found his trip sheet would be able to determine where he picked up Z. I do recall reading somewhere that the cops took an interest in Stine's meter, though - but I suppose they might have done so even if they knew precisely where the pick-up had taken place (from checking his trip sheet).

What you seem to suggest doesn't strike me as particularly likely, however - i.e. that Power picked up the trip sheet from...what? the police impound or wherever the car was stored, the item in question being in the car? Surely it was stored with other pieces of evidence?

Anyway, the detectives who arrived on the scene must have checked out this trip sheet - I can't imagine that they wouldn't have. And surely they must have done so prior to any reporter being able to get his hand on it.

I do see in what, let's say, direction you're pushing this - and it's an interesting theory. Not sure I buy it, though.

[BillRobison]

Norse:

There was no separate, locked garage area, so far as I know. The evidence technicians did not come on duty until 5:30 am. And evidence tampering, witness badgering, and so forth by reporters were SOP in those days. So it's more than plausible. Reporters would sit at cop desks and type their reports for them, answer phones, and so forth. The Examiners Ed Montgomery and the Chronicles Bob Popp were practically deputies.

Stine's killer was 20 years younger, 50-70 lbs lighter, and several shades brunetter than the guy F and Z saw walking on Maple. So the guy they saw was not the killer. So, how did Zodiac know about him? The Chronicle Examiner Sunday morning article described the shooter with blonde hair, so the reporter knew about him, but no newspaper article mentioned anything about two cops seeing this guy walking up Maple. How did Zodiac know about him? Unless they were accomplices, Stine's killer couldn't have known that two cops "pulled a goof." So how did Zodiac know? A Chronicle reporter AND Zodiac knew about a "suspect" that the actual killer couldn't have known about. Only someone with access to police files could have known.

There's no doubt a Chronicle reporter had a copy of Hoffman's report. Zodiac knew exactly what was in that report, how Hoffman spelled certain words (and used words like thus) and knew about another "suspect" who was mentioned in that report but was not mentioned in the papers and could not have been the killer. Andy pulled in and out of BRS fifteen minutes after the shooter left, so the shooter could not have known about him. How did Zodiac know things in police reports that a Chronicle reporter knew about, but that the killer(s) could not have known about? How did a Chronicle reporter know about things in Stine's waybill that Zodiac knew about, but SFPD did not know about?

What other explanation is there? Once? Fluke. Twice? Coincidence. Three times? Plus the fingerprints? What do we call all of that?

[vince]

Interesting points above, I agree with your reasoning.

Imo, the possible answer is quite clear.

1.Zodiac was a cop, and had access to the files
2. Zodiac had a cop friend who was sharing with him things that he shouldn't have been
3. The cops were protecting him for whatever reason.

When you consider just how many goofs these cops pulled, and how reluctant they are today to re-test evidence, you cant help but question is there something more sinister going on. When you consider Darlene's links to different cops, the fact they frequented her restaurant, the more I feel there is cop ties to Zodiac himself.

I know people will say "cops were inexperienced back then", and sure you have a point; though I struggle to believe they were that inexperienced that they genuinely handled this case just THAT badly.