Zodiackillersite.com

Posted: **Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:31 am**

Norse wrote:QT: The shirt business is clearly puzzling. But I personally don't think Z had planned in advance to a) hail a cab, b) have the driver take him to a quite spot, c) kill him and d) take a piece of his shirt.

If this had been his plan, why Presidio Heights? Smack in the middle of a residential area? Nice and quiet neighborhood, certainly, but still - there would have been MANY places which would have suited this plan better, even locations within the same general area. Secondly, he would have brought along a pair of scissors for the job. He didn't, though - the shirt was TORN off, not cut.

I think some of the Stine elements were happenstance. To a certain extent Z improvised. The idea to grab a piece of Stine's shirt may have occurred to him there and then.

The whole business of wiping down the cab is troubling too, by the way. If he planned the attack carefully, he surely wouldn't have left prints all over the place which needed wiping. The wiping down part seems to suggest two possibilities to me: 1) He didn't plan to kill Stine in just that fashion. Part of it was planned, part of it was happenstance and/or a blunder of some kind. 2) He was telling the truth in his letter. He WAS leaving "fake clews" of one kind or another.

The whole "wiping down the cab" bit certainly flies in the face of his whole airplane-glue-on-the-fingertips hoohah.

The shirt makes all the sense in the world as a trophy. The keys and his wallet aren't quite as piquant as a bloodstained shirt. He obviously planned on doing something with a gun, since he had it on him. Maybe he skulked around SF for a while with that gun in his pocket waiting for that feeling that it was right, that it was time. Which is a terrifying thought.

I have always wondered if perhaps he didn't leave his car at some distance simply because parking in SF SUCKS. Its the WORST place I have been for parking.

Posted: **Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:36 am**

Coffee Time wrote:Would paramedics perform resuscitation on someone who's already bled to death (if the shot didn't do it first)?...if you're inferring they messed with his shirt after the cab was opened. I'd also think they'd take him out of the taxi before they tried anything.

Other people have addressed the paramedics situation, but I'll just briefly respond to what was reported by Pellisetti:

"...found victim to be slumped over...torso in the passenger side...head resting on the floorboard...Ambulance was summoned...P.E.H. Ambulance #02 responded, steward Dousette, victim was examined and pronounced dead at 10:10PM"

Posted: **Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:45 am**

duckking2001 wrote:
Coffee Time wrote:Would paramedics perform resuscitation on someone who's already bled to death (if the shot didn't do it first)?...if you're inferring they messed with his shirt after the cab was opened. I'd also think they'd take him out of the taxi before they tried anything.

Other people have addressed the paramedics situation, but I'll just briefly respond to what was reported by Pellisetti:

"...found victim to be slumped over...torso in the passenger side...head resting on the floorboard...Ambulance was summoned...P.E.H. Ambulance #02 responded, steward Dousette, victim was examined and pronounced dead at 10:10PM"

THANK YOU FOR THIS. I always wondered why the body was face up when, if he had the body in his lap and was ripping the back of the shirt, the body would have been found JUST as Pellisetti described it, with the head in the floorboard. So someone did move the body from that position, which gives ample opportunity to get blood on your hands- wondering if those paramedics wore gloves?

Posted: **Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:05 am**

The first disposable latex medical gloves were manufactured in 1964 by Ansell.

So it is possible that gloves were used by the medics. Even if they were though it still limits the number of viable options for the originator of those prints. If Toschi always believed the prints were Zodiac's then it stands to reason that was because he noted them as soon as he got to the crime scene.

If we also consider that the children who saw Zodiac leave that night watched him leave and ran out to chase the man/meet the cops as they arrived, then we can discount that any random person was up at the cab placing their hands in the blood then on the cab.

So, via elimination the prints belong to either; Zodiac, the EMTs, or one of the cops on the scene who touched the body before Toschi got there.

That is a very small window of time and therefore a very small number of possible origins of the print.

Posted: **Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:24 pm**

themysterymachine wrote: So someone did move the body from that position, which gives ample opportunity to get blood on your hands- wondering if those paramedics wore gloves?

Dousette would have done that, yes. Apparently an ambulance steward (what exactly is that?) could pronounce someone dead. I thought either the cops themselves or a doctor (who sometimes accompanied the ambulance) did that back then, but clearly not.

Anyway, I guess Dousette would have moved Stine's body to verify 100% that he was indeed dead - and in order to check for multiple entry wounds, etc. Plenty of opportunity to leave prints, as you say. But surely Dousette would have been among the first whose prints were checked for elimination purposes.

Posted: **Thu Aug 14, 2014 12:37 am**

Norse wrote:
themysterymachine wrote: So someone did move the body from that position, which gives ample opportunity to get blood on your hands- wondering if those paramedics wore gloves?

Dousette would have done that, yes. Apparently an ambulance steward (what exactly is that?) could pronounce someone dead. I thought either the cops themselves or a doctor (who sometimes accompanied the ambulance) did that back then, but clearly not.

Anyway, I guess Dousette would have moved Stine's body to verify 100% that he was indeed dead - and in order to check for multiple entry wounds, etc. Plenty of opportunity to leave prints, as you say. But surely Dousette would have been among the first whose prints were checked for elimination purposes.

That reminds me of something Toschi said, he said he had one little piece of evidence that he had held back and that if he ever met or interviewed someone he considered the Zodiac, he would ask him about that one detail. Apparently that has not happened. Wonder if it has anything to do with any of these fingerprints on Stine's cab.

Zodiackillersite.com

Shirt Pieces

Re: Shirt Pieces

Re: Shirt Pieces

Re: Shirt Pieces

Re: Shirt Pieces

Re: Shirt Pieces

Re: Shirt Pieces