Zodiackillersite.com

Zodiac may have not said a thing to them Marie, so in turn, the cops wouldn't expect anything from the (white) man they saw.

Should haves, would haves, could haves, abound...

I would of thought two key witnesses or possible suspects stopped only a few hundred yards from a murder, particularly Jackson Street would have at least been detained, after all Zodiac was heading towards Jackson Street. And if Fouke saw a suspicious white male entering a stairwell to 3712 Jackson Street, how come this residence was not revisited later, after all even Fouke when he met Pelissetti realized he may have come across Zodiac. Surely then you head back to 3712 Jackson Street, not the park, but no, he doesn't even mention it in the report. In the words of John McEnroe "You cannot be serious".

Fouke reasoned - so he says - that Z would have headed into the park.

Which isn't unreasonable. So, it's not surprising he didn't go back to 3712.

After the immediate search? Did he go back to inquire at 3712? No, he did not - because, as he suggested, the sort of people who live there aren't to be bothered for no good reason.

Good enough? Hardly, from our perspective.

From his perspective, though - again: They weren't hunting Zodiac. That's what we keep coming back to. It wasn't the possibly immensely interesting and important event it is today - it was just another street crime.

Goes for Fouke, goes for Pelissetti, goes for the dispatcher, goes for the whole damn SFPD. Just the way it is.

We have to treat it for what it is. A pretty shabby deal as far as criminal investigations involving a serial killer goes. But I don't blame Fouke or Pelissetti - or the dispatcher - for that.

I find it far more worrying that the people who actually investigated the Z case in SF, after they knew damn well who they were dealing with, apparently neglected to talk to Fouke - or the teen witnesses. That's incomprehensible. It's...just, I don't know. I find myself hoping it simply isn't true.

You know Norse, maybe that is why Fouke sort of scoffs at the "investigators" when asked why he didn't tell them about how Zodiac walked up to the house on Jackson...."let them figure it out" he said. Maybe he too (along side us) thought it was ridiculous (if true) they never bothered with him and Zelms. It just seems like an important piece of info for that evening...it also seems like it should have been mentioned in the scratch/memo. Nada.

Also you know something is a little off when you get pages and pages of police reports on Lake Herman, Blue Rock Springs and Lake Berryessa. The police report for the Stine murder is where, 2 pages on Voigt's site.

But if the description really was correct and the BMA was made up after the fact, how do you explain F and Z NOT stopping the guy walking who fits the description?

I don't remember what the report says. Is it possible that no suspect information was given out on the radio, just that there were shots fired at the location? So Fouke would have been heading to the location, not looking for a suspect fleeing from it. I don't think that police officers are going to be stopping and asking people what they saw on the way to a crime scene. People at the scene, yes, but not people just walking around in the area when they are responding, unless they are told to be on the lookout.

Tahoe27 wrote:You know Norse, maybe that is why Fouke sort of scoffs at the "investigators" when asked why he didn't tell them about how Zodiac walked up to the house on Jackson...."let them figure it out" he said. Maybe he too (along side us) thought it was ridiculous (if true) they never bothered with him and Zelms. It just seems like an important piece of info for that evening...it also seems like it should have been mentioned in the scratch/memo. Nada.

Its very frustrating that's for sure

marie wrote:Like I was trying to express, its just not logical (Love pop ultra- Judge Judy "If is doesn't make sense, its usually not true.)

I know they were on the chase for a black man. If I'm a cop and someone says- yes, I saw him run up that street waving a gun, you NEEED to fully interview that witness.

At the very least, get his name (even if its fake) and ask him to come in for a statement.
He was a witness. And who would not increase their pace after seeing a man with a gun. Like I said, I am trying to make sense of it all, reconcile opinions, learn- but he should have been tagged and interrogated as a witness.

I also want to say "I have no idea what it means., or why.

If they had stopped z they may very we'll have been gunned down. I think they drove right by z and never stopped him. Z was very lucky to escape, Palissetti was seconds behind him. He encountered the "man walking his dog" very quickly who witnessed nobody, and to me it's clear that man was not z as he was not covered in blood, and really would not have had time to clean up or get his dog

Everyone seems to think Zodiac should have been smothered in blood. Had the Zodiac shot Paul Stine from the rear of the cab, he may have received a modicum of back spatter onto his hand, evidenced later by the noting of blooded fingerprints on the panel between driver and rear passenger door. Had the Zodiac entered the front right passenger door and Paul Stine had fell or been pulled into the right front well, where Pelissetti observed Stine when arriving at the scene, his head wound would have been bleeding into this well, shown in the photographs. The rear of the front passenger seat is noticeable by the absence of much blood, so had Zodiac sat on the edge of this seat, with Paul Stine's back area now exposed (as his heads in the well), he now has to tear the shirt, probably receiving a little more blood on his hands, but not a lot, as the rear of the shirt is less stained. There would be minimal, if any, blood visible on his dark trousers, his hands he wipes with the shirt and off he toddies up Cherry. The observations of the three teenagers from 60 feet is a rough recollection of an event they didn't understand at the time. They thought he was wiping down the front passenger side door handle, which they couldn't see from their angle (they saw white rag and door and filled in the blanks), he was understood to be wiping around the driver side door, which in all likelihood was masked by his body, they thought the Zodiac had Paul Stine's head in his lap. You have just shot a man in the side of the head, blood is pouring out, so you rest his head in your lap. No chance. The point being he could quite easily have little to no blood on him whatsoever, if we choose to accept the Washington and Cherry murder scenario.

UKSpycatcher wrote:Everyone seems to think Zodiac should have been smothered in blood. Had the Zodiac shot Paul Stine from the rear of the cab, he may have received a modicum of back spatter onto his hand, evidenced later by the noting of blooded fingerprints on the panel between driver and rear passenger door. Had the Zodiac entered the front right passenger door and Paul Stine had fell or been pulled into the right front well, where Pelissetti observed Stine when arriving at the scene, his head wound would have been bleeding into this well, shown in the photographs. The rear of the front passenger seat is noticeable by the absence of much blood, so had Zodiac sat on the edge of this seat, with Paul Stine's back area now exposed (as his heads in the well), he now has to tear the shirt, probably receiving a little more blood on his hands, but not a lot, as the rear of the shirt is less stained. There would be minimal, if any, blood visible on his dark trousers, his hands he wipes with the shirt and off he toddies up Cherry. The observations of the three teenagers from 60 feet is a rough recollection of an event they didn't understand at the time. They thought he was wiping down the front passenger side door handle, which they couldn't see from their angle (they saw white rag and door and filled in the blanks), he was understood to be wiping around the driver side door, which in all likelihood was masked by his body, they thought the Zodiac had Paul Stine's head in his lap. You have just shot a man in the side of the head, blood is pouring out, so you rest his head in your lap. No chance. The point being he could quite easily have little to no blood on him whatsoever, if we choose to accept the Washington and Cherry murder scenario.

i mostly agree with this. there's no reason to think he would have done anything intentionally to cover himself with blood. back splatter could've been incidental but i don't see him sitting in blood or positioning stine in a way to get blood on himself. i really think the estimates of the amount of blood he'd have on himself are overboard.