Zodiackillersite.com

Tahoe27 wrote:
I wonder when they decided to throw the map/book onto the ground into the blood for good measure?

Yes, that's pretty odd, isn't it? When did that get there - and how? It's almost like someone placed it there in order to get a picture of it. I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure you don't normally handle potential evidence in that fashion.

Norse wrote:

Tahoe27 wrote:
I wonder when they decided to throw the map/book onto the ground into the blood for good measure?

Yes, that's pretty odd, isn't it? When did that get there - and how? It's almost like someone placed it there in order to get a picture of it. I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure you don't normally handle potential evidence in that fashion.

Wild guess: that as they extracted Paul's body from the cab it was under him and was dragged out onto the ground.

Mr lowe wrote:[

Wild guess: that as they extracted Paul's body from the cab it was under him and was dragged out onto the ground.

Pretty good guess too, I'd say - it makes sense. The street guide was on the dashboard and fell on the floor during the commotion – and was then dragged out along with Stine when they moved him from the car.

Yah...he is out of the cab at that point. I wonder if they looked for prints on that book. Sure hope so..

My scenario.. And I am sure it would have been said before. And it's just guess work..
Perp gets in front or back.. whichever for the moment.
Chooses his time to shoot. Probably when the cab is slowed enough to not continue too far unaided and go out of control.
Perp shoots Paul.
Paul stays upright until perp gets out of car and goes to drivers door.
Paul bleeds out down his shirt.
Perp opens door and pushes Paul to the passenger side where his head slides into the footwell . He is face down. His back towards the roof of the car.he continues to bleed out.
Perp takes keys from ignition wallet from back pants pocket.
Perp realizes he needs to wipe prints and tears the shirt. (I have read this is an army thing to do to get clean rags to stop bleeding)
Perp wipes down cab..
Scurries away like the rat he is.
Police arrive and then paramedics.
Open passenger door and roll Paul up onto seat face up to help him

Blood drips through hole in floor well? Don't know why a hole would be their?
Or blood is caught in Paul's jacket and runs down his sleeve when his arm is out? I suspect they extract Paul's body from the passenger side. the "book, map, run sheet" was on the seat next to him to start with and then under him as he was rolled onto his back on the seat by the paramedics. As Paul was removed from the car the booklet slid out with him onto the ground.

Pure speculative scenario.

I don't think it's likely that Z suddenly, as it were, realized that he had left prints all over the place – and then tore off a piece of shirt to clean up after himself.

If he was indeed wiping the cab down (rather than doing something else), then he did so because things didn't go according to plan. One possible such scenario is the “rolling cab” one mentioned above.

My personal opinion is that Z waited until Stine had stopped the cab at the destination given (whether it was Maple or Cherry). He then engaged in some talk with him, Berryessa style, to make sure he remained calm: This is a robbery, no need to get excited, I just want your cash, etc. Then he shot him – and then something went wrong. In the “rolling cab” scenario, which I like for several reasons, what went wrong is obvious.

My scenario, since we're doing that kind of thing....

1. Paul Stine sits in his cab, awaiting a call, at a downtown hotel.

2. Stine gets a call for a pick-up at Allen Arms Apartments.

3. En route, Stine encounters The Zodiac, who sits in back seat.

4. Cab heads to Maple and Washington, The Zodiac's destination.

5. Upon arrival, The Zodiac realizes location is compromised.

6.The Zodiac presses for change in one block in cab's forward vector.

7. Cab arrives at destination.

8. The Zodiac, sitting in back seat (for a variety of reasons) shoots Stine in the right side of his head.

9. Stine gushes blood to the right, falls to his right, bleeds out in right front passenger seat well.

10. The Zodiac moves up front to take keys, wallet, and shirt. Kids see Stine in this location, which is why it was reported that way by the investigative police. He also alters the initial position of Stine's fallen body.

11. The Zodiac exits cab, begins wiping it down for whatever reason(s).

12. The Zodiac walks north and east to arrive at the place he would have traveled if the cab had stopped at Maple and Washington (one block off from original destination).

13. Police, en route to Stine crime scene, sees The Zodiac escaping towards his original departure point.

UKSpycatcher wrote:

jroberson wrote:I'd say he was shot to his right, fell to the right, bled heavily into the right front passenger seat well, was moved at some point by the killer, and then fell into the street/door jamb during the investigation.
Not sure what you folks are seeing, but...that's clearly what the evidence shows.

Yes he was shot to his right, but did not fall into the passenger well, the pattern on the shirt indicates he was upright for a measurable time, otherwise if he had fell immediately, there shouldn't be this much blood on the left of the shirt, pretty much the same as the right to 2/3 down. However after the Zodiac had tore the shirt, mid to passenger side, I believe he then pushed Paul Stine into the passenger well and exited the vehicle. Those marks on the driver side arm rest cannot get there if he immediately fell over to the right, they are drip marks of blood indicating that he remained upright for a period of time and the blood running down his left side, while being pressed into the arm rest is why the pattern of blood abruptly stops on the left side of the shirt 2/3 down and the cause of the blood on the arm rest. This blood cannot just appear here.

Blood doesn't look like it's on the "left of his shirt". Looks more like it's in the middle of his shirt.

And it doesn't look like a high-velocity spray. It's looks like either a heavy transfer pattern or low- to medium-velocity flow.

Have you ever seen what immediately occurs when a person is shot in the head? The wound jets bloods. It's not like in the movies where there's this light spray and then a subsequent trickle. If you play the scene in your head, with an eye to blood spatter forensics, you'd see that there would have been an initial jet of blood to the right. He likely landed on his own initial blood jetting (in the seat), or the blood, after an initial and very quick gushing, ran down his shirt as his head was blown to the left of the gunshot. Imagine his head being forced to the left, the wound now in the normal direction of his chest, but perhaps pointing slightly down, now the body falling to the right. Stine's chest would then perhaps lay chest down in the front seat, on his own initial gushing, with the head wound pointing into the right front passenger seat well. His head would be dangling off the seat.

The Zodiac then altered the body's position during his cutting of Stine's shirt.


That's one theory that's consistent with the apparent and available evidence.

What doesn't work though is The Zodiac sitting in the front seat at the time of the actual gun shot. Had he been in that position, he would have been literally drenched, from head to waist, in Stine's blood jetting from his head wound.



I think it's possible the right side of Stine's head was more normal to The Zodiac's face as he was sitting in the back seat at the time of the trigger pull. I think the Zodiac was actually sprayed by Stine's blood, perhaps in his face. I think that may be one reason he cut Stine's shirt: not to clean up clues, at least at first, but to reduce the amount of blood Stine's wound deposited on The Zodiac. I just don't think The Zodiac was anticipating such a unbelievably bloody experience, probably because he encountered such violence only in comic books and sanitized films.


I also think Stine left the cab running, but in park. I think The Zodiac took the keys because he touched them. He touched them because he turned the car off. He turned the car off because he wanted it sitting there quietly until either he escaped or for the full effect of a dead cabbie deposited in tony Pacific Heights. Imagine the headlines....

The wallet....dunno. It's my theory that The Zodiac may have actually wanted this to look like a robbery, at least initially. I think he was trying to "up his game". I think he was running out of ways to shock the public. A dead cabbie that looked like a robbery for which he could then claim credit would frighten the hell out of people because The Zodiac could then claim to be anywhere killing anyone at almost any time. He would have made himself into a modern urban bogeyman.

Unfortunately, a trio of darned nosy kids, sans Mystery Machine, ruined The Zodiac's super-villain moment.

Yup I go with that jroberson. The question I raise is for Z to tear off the back of Paul's shirt,Paul has to be on his stomach. the photos show him face up arm out of the door. So going back to the question of the blood on the road and how did it get there because the door looks clean.

Why would there be blood on the door? How would it get there? Certainly the blood didn't jet into the street.

More than likely Stine bled out mostly into the passenger side floorboard and then, when the police repositioned the body after opening the car door, Stine drained out into the street, thanks to gravity.

Not much blood in the street, really.