The Car Door

[BillRobison]

"There are some very knowledgeable people on this board who have studied the case for years. They know very well that the Zodiac symbol doesn't prove anything in-itself. They are perfectly aware of what was published and what was not - and I can guarantee you they haven't been fooled by Graysmith, of all people, into believing anything."

I know that's what a lot of people on here claim. They've studied the case for years, but until I pointed out just a couple of days ago that the FBI report of October 23 clearly states that no print from any crime scene or letter matches any other, they didn't know that. Until I pointed out that the Times-Herald had printed the entire first letter, including the symbol, on the front page August 4, they didn't know that, either. The one called Smithy still doesn't seem to know it. But I don't care about how long they've studied the case. I don't care if they beat their dog. I don't care if someone's certifiable. What I've asked them all is, can they point to any actual evidence besides the Handprinting that might rule out a copycat?

Can they? Can anyone? Anyone at all? I don't care about reputations. I don't care if you're Horan. Can you point to anything that would actually rule out a copycat? If you can, that would help me a LOT.

[Tahoe27]

Points well taken Norse.

I have often wondered if Stine being murdered so soon after Berryessa with the need to offer physical proof, was Zodiac's way of saying/showing---HERE I am, the REAL me, with PROOF "I" did it.

[Tahoe27]

I know that's what a lot of people on here claim. They've studied the case for years, but until I pointed out just a couple of days ago that the FBI report of October 23 clearly states that no print from any crime scene or letter matches any other, they didn't know that. Until I pointed out that the Times-Herald had printed the entire first letter, including the symbol, on the front page August 4, they didn't know that, either.

Maybe you should say "some" didn't know that.

Most of us are well aware prints from the different crime scene and letters have never matched. If they did, we all wouldn't be having a lot of these conversations!

And of course many of us were aware of the letter to the Vallejo Times Herald with a copy of the actual letter in it. It was simply forgotten--I thank you for reminding us. Zamantha had shared that later publicly a long time ago (at the old site) and of course it may have been mentioned and/or shown elsewhere too.

So thanks for your input, but...

[UKSpycatcher]

Smithy:


My question was simply, is there ANY other EVIDENCE besides the possible match of the handwriting? Whether someone could have copied it or not, is there ANYTHING else linking the Zodiac letters to the Berryessa attack?

Not in terms of concrete evidence, but the Lake Berryessa attack occurred on September 27th 1969 and the Dripping Pen Card and 340 Cipher was received on November 8th 1969, 42 days later. His Lake Berryessa attack was undoubtedly his most 'theatrical performance ' to date and may have received a 'special' place within his letters. Of course there is still a possibility that if and when the 340 Cipher is decoded, it may reveal details or reference to this attack. However he does write Sept on this correspondence, just like the car door. The months he wrote are also a good correlation, December - 2 murders, July - 1 murder, September- 1 murder, October - 1 or 2 murders (if you include Riverside). Up to the 340 Cipher it was suspected the Zodiac Killer had committed 5 murders. He had 12 months to pick from, but he selects 4 in correct chronological order, starting with 'Des', with just the one or two murders in August unaccounted for. His selection of these months is not random and one can reasonably state, that his reference to Sept, is likely his reference to the Berryessa attack.
This is a link within his letters, other than handwriting, but again it is subjective, you either believe Sept to mean Berryessa or you don't.
The reference to 'By Knife' in his possible Halloween Card also tallies with the writing on the car door.

[smithy]

Smithy:

I don't quite follow you.

Umm, try reading what I wrote! Here it is - in blue type, after this colon:

The [colon] appeared in the SECOND letter. "Fourth of July:".
That colon was written on the door. It's evidence that the guy who wrote the earlier letters wrote on that door. EVIDENCE, yes? No?
That letter WAS NOT in the press before the Berryessa attack. Good old Graysmith says so in the yellow book, you'll find. He says "None of these facts have ever been made public". He reproduced the letter in that book, too - and wrote under it "This letter has never before been reproduced". Yes? No?

Until I pointed out that the Times-Herald had printed the entire first letter, including the symbol, on the front page August 4, they didn't know that, either. The one called Smithy still doesn't seem to know it.

...Try reading what I wrote, again.
First letters - no colon for the copy cat. Second letter - never in the press - colon. Get me?

Really, Bill, you can be quite exasperating. No, I'm not touchy, though.

[BillRobison]

Smithy: Okay. You're claiming that the SECOND letter was not photocopied in the newspapers. I see. And your proof is that Graysmith said so in the Yellow Book. I see. Even though, as Morf himself recently posted, the first letter most definitely was. Even though Graysmith claimed in the Yellow Book that it wasn't.

I see.

What's the difference between a period, and a colon, by the way? There are circle periods in that first letter.

So, the grand total of all the evidence that proves the Zodiac undoubtedly wrote the message on the car door is the difference between a period, and a colon.

I see. You think you're exasperated? I've been desperately trying to find out if there's any evidence linking Zodiac to the Lake Berryessa attack, and all I get is an exasperated reliance on Robert Graysmith's Yellow Book and a condescending lecture on the distinction between a period and a colon.

Is that it? Anyone else? Anyone? Any evidence at all? No? That's unfortunate. I really, really could have used some.

[Tahoe27]

Smithy:


My question was simply, is there ANY other EVIDENCE besides the possible match of the handwriting? Whether someone could have copied it or not, is there ANYTHING else linking the Zodiac letters to the Berryessa attack?

Not in terms of concrete evidence, but the Lake Berryessa attack occurred on September 27th 1969 and the Dripping Pen Card and 340 Cipher was received on November 8th 1969, 42 days later. His Lake Berryessa attack was undoubtedly his most 'theatrical performance ' to date and may have received a 'special' place within his letters. Of course there is still a possibility that if and when the 340 Cipher is decoded, it may reveal details or reference to this attack. However he does write Sept on this correspondence, just like the car door. The months he wrote are also a good correlation, December - 2 murders, July - 1 murder, September- 1 murder, October - 1 or 2 murders (if you include Riverside). Up to the 340 Cipher it was suspected the Zodiac Killer had committed 5 murders. He had 12 months to pick from, but he selects 4 in correct chronological order, starting with 'Des', with just the one or two murders in August unaccounted for. His selection of these months is not random and one can reasonably state, that his reference to Sept, is likely his reference to the Berryessa attack.
This is a link within his letters, other than handwriting, but again it is subjective, you either believe Sept to mean Berryessa or you don't.
The reference to 'By Knife' in his possible Halloween Card also tallies with the writing on the car door.

He did write "Sept" in that correspondence...just like the car door, BUT he also wrote "Aug"....NOT on the car door.

So:

1) The real Zodiac did not write on the car door
2) The real Zodiac lied about August
3) The real Zodiac did kill in August...just forgot or didn't write it on the car door for whatever reason--and forgot he didn't write it on the door.

IF Zodiac did really kill in August--and IF the LB guy was not Zodiac, it would make sense August was NOT on the car door.

And is Zodiac taking credit for something so far-fetched? Not that the word "Sept" is actually taking credit for something. And ultimately this is the ONE crime he never truly "takes credit" for. The other crimes he practically shouts out his "this was me, this is how I did it, and this is how I know---publish it and tell the world about me".

[smithy]

Smithy: Okay. You're claiming that the SECOND letter was not photocopied in the newspapers.

Stating that as a fact, yes. You can't disprove that fact with "evidence" to the contrary then, from a newspaper? Bummer.

Edwin Alford Jr wrote about methods of disguising handwriting in October 1970, having done a statistical survey about it. He listed:
"change of slope, spacing, size, the use of awkward hand, handprinting, arrangement, change of angularity, deceptive spelling, altered approach and terminal strokes, alteration of upper and lower extensions, capital and lower case letter forms, the “i” dot or period, and handwritten numbers."
(Richard Hoffman? Let's reflect on his spelling for a second? Or not. And Sherwood Morrill? He would have recognised pretty much immediately that the writing in the letters was disguised.)
Anyway, those are still used as the definitive categories; everything that comes afterward talks about the same general areas.

There are many preceding texts, but the best known is probably that of good old John J. Harris:
http://scholarlycommons.law.northwester ... ntext=jclc
See that? That particular bit about the "schoolgirl" dots? Well, well.

So it's a "usual" characteristic in handwriting disguise - this drawing little circles. Especially among people who know about this sort of thing. People who study it maybe, or write about it themselves, or get paid to investigate it. Or go to libraries to get a book out about how to do it (while collecting other books on how to make bombs or create ciphers.) Or copycats, I suppose. (Though I don't really think so.)
The person who wrote this stuff took great pleasure in cocking a snook (ha! See what I did there?) at the people who he knew would read it. What a laugh! It's almost like he intentionally used all the techniques he could, at one time or another. Tongue in cheek, ya think? Well maybe.

Yes. Even On The Door.

Re: "trying to find out if there's any evidence linking Zodiac to the Lake Berryessa attack" - well, that's a whole different thing.

[Norse]

Heh. Never thought about misspelling as a means to disguise your actual handwriting. But it does make sense. If you intentionally misspell a word, there's a piece of artifice right there compared to your natural style.

For what it's worth I do think Z's misspelling is intentional (well, most of the time I think so, anyway). And if it is, the last person I would be looking for is someone who was a terrible speller.

A certain cop who had trouble in that department strikes me as a bit dyslectic, perhaps. Though I'm certainly no expert there. Alternatively he wasn't good with a typewriter. Several of his mistakes are either omissions (failed to press the key) or those "teh" instead of "the" things (I'm sure there's a name for it). Typos more than anything, in other words.

[smithy]

Norse - yes, DIckie Hoffman I think you mean, as I reflected on for a second? Report here (well, that is, part of one.)
http://www.zodiackiller.com/DFR5.html
Terrible speller. And "writter". Murderer? Well.... There are other threads.