Zodiackillersite.com

smithy wrote:No, it doesn't have to make any sense.

Bang!, Squawk!, Thump!

That's the sound of my reply being shot out of the sky you sneaky ..........

I think the hood and, his conversation with Bryan and Cecilia, was his letter to the papers and police. He was successful in killing David and Betty. He failed with Mike and Darleen even after having gone back a second time to shoot them. Mike got a side look at the killer. He couldn't take that chance at berryessa. Had both, Bryan and Cecilia died, there would have been another letter. But they didn't and Bryan told the story of Zodiac the best he could remember. The symbol on the get up was - the symbol on his letter. He wanted people to know it was him.

Soze

I agree... the writing on the victim's car door was his letter. "It would be easier for me to demonstrate."

Tahoe27 wrote:I don't buy into multiple personalites for a second.

While I do think the hood was more for personal reasons, I think he very much intended to scare the crap out of them. I mean...he probably stared at himself in the mirror before he left admiring how terrifying he looked!

A creepy hood with a symbol on the chest, a gun and holster, a knife in a sheath and longs strips of white clothesline...would have freaked me out bigtime.

***
This is why I question LB as Zodiac--even with the car door. So many vast differences. Seems Zodiac's ego would have wanted Bryan and Cecelia to know who he was..."I am the Zodiac Killer".....(wear my buttons!)

We know Zodiac himself only used it ONCE in a letter prior to LB. Anyone know if Bryan and/or Cecelia were familiar with the "Zodiac Killer" at all? I mean, even had he said "I'm Zodiac", would they have known who that was??

Right-o. The black hood was well made to give him 100% credibility, as I believe he intended to leave B.H. alive to tell the tale, avoid being dismissed as a copycat, and, most importantly, being later identified and drive public and investigators attention away from LH and BRS. He could have shown up with a ski-mask and a white t-shirt with an Z. sign on it and be thought of as a joke wannabe. Worse yet, a ski mask, quickly associated with crime, would have prompted C.S. and B.H. to run and scream but someone with a black hood held their attention long enough to keep them put.
After SF, he relied on letters and postcards to perpetuate the myth of The Z.

Victor wrote:

Tahoe27 wrote:I don't buy into multiple personalites for a second.

While I do think the hood was more for personal reasons, I think he very much intended to scare the crap out of them. I mean...he probably stared at himself in the mirror before he left admiring how terrifying he looked!

A creepy hood with a symbol on the chest, a gun and holster, a knife in a sheath and longs strips of white clothesline...would have freaked me out bigtime.

***
This is why I question LB as Zodiac--even with the car door. So many vast differences. Seems Zodiac's ego would have wanted Bryan and Cecelia to know who he was..."I am the Zodiac Killer".....(wear my buttons!)

We know Zodiac himself only used it ONCE in a letter prior to LB. Anyone know if Bryan and/or Cecelia were familiar with the "Zodiac Killer" at all? I mean, even had he said "I'm Zodiac", would they have known who that was??

Right-o. The black hood was well made to give him 100% credibility, as I believe he intended to leave B.H. alive to tell the tale, avoid being dismissed as a copycat, and, most importantly, being later identified and drive public and investigators attention away from LH and BRS. He could have shown up with a ski-mask and a white t-shirt with an Z. sign on it and be thought of as a joke wannabe. Worse yet, a ski mask, quickly associated with crime, would have prompted C.S. and B.H. to run and scream but someone with a black hood held their attention long enough to keep them put.
After SF, he relied on letters and postcards to perpetuate the myth of The Z.

I really don't see how you can arrive at 'Zodiac intended al along to let Bryan Hartnell live' when Zodiac stabbed Bryan Six times in the back with a blade that was 12 Inches long. The reason Bryan Survived had nothing to do with Zodiac, he survived because, like he said himself, he was determined not to die out there alone, and crawled up to that road after losing so mutch blood to get help for Cecelia. Bryan's survival need to be attributed to him and him alone, he should be held in the highest regard possible for his determination and actions that day and any attempt to credit Zodiac as contributing to Bryan's survival is to diminish and take away from Bryan his courageous, heart-felt and compassionate actions of trying desperately to get help for Cecilia. Zodiac had nothing to do with Bryan Surviving what-so-ever!

Welsh Chappie wrote:

Victor wrote:

Tahoe27 wrote:I don't buy into multiple personalites for a second.

While I do think the hood was more for personal reasons, I think he very much intended to scare the crap out of them. I mean...he probably stared at himself in the mirror before he left admiring how terrifying he looked!

A creepy hood with a symbol on the chest, a gun and holster, a knife in a sheath and longs strips of white clothesline...would have freaked me out bigtime.

***
This is why I question LB as Zodiac--even with the car door. So many vast differences. Seems Zodiac's ego would have wanted Bryan and Cecelia to know who he was..."I am the Zodiac Killer".....(wear my buttons!)

We know Zodiac himself only used it ONCE in a letter prior to LB. Anyone know if Bryan and/or Cecelia were familiar with the "Zodiac Killer" at all? I mean, even had he said "I'm Zodiac", would they have known who that was??

Right-o. The black hood was well made to give him 100% credibility, as I believe he intended to leave B.H. alive to tell the tale, avoid being dismissed as a copycat, and, most importantly, being later identified and drive public and investigators attention away from LH and BRS. He could have shown up with a ski-mask and a white t-shirt with an Z. sign on it and be thought of as a joke wannabe. Worse yet, a ski mask, quickly associated with crime, would have prompted C.S. and B.H. to run and scream but someone with a black hood held their attention long enough to keep them put.
After SF, he relied on letters and postcards to perpetuate the myth of The Z.

I really don't see how you can arrive at 'Zodiac intended al along to let Bryan Hartnell live' when Zodiac stabbed Bryan Six times in the back with a blade that was 12 Inches long. The reason Bryan Survived had nothing to do with Zodiac, he survived because, like he said himself, he was determined not to die out there alone, and crawled up to that road after losing so mutch blood to get help for Cecelia. Bryan's survival need to be attributed to him and him alone, he should be held in the highest regard possible for his determination and actions that day and any attempt to credit Zodiac as contributing to Bryan's survival is to diminish and take away from Bryan his courageous, heart-felt and compassionate actions of trying desperately to get help for Cecilia. Zodiac had nothing to do with Bryan Surviving what-so-ever!

The Z., had he wanted to really kill both he would have gone for the jugular and wouldn't have had to bother with a disguise either. Also, is there a record of just how deep and the location of B.H.'s five stab wounds were? Five jabs to a man to ten stab wounds on a small, frail woman sounds like intent to leave a living witness long enough to say who did it.

The reason Bryan Survived is simple, other than his determination, courage etc, he was stabbed first, at which point, according to Bryan, Cecilia began to roll away from the hooded man stabbing him, and Zodiac noticed this, and got up before she could get any real distance away from him. At that point, as Zodiac is stabbing Cecilia, Bryan has stated several times down the years "It dawned on me that if i'm moving around, he's going to see that and come back and finish me off. So I played dead, quit breathing, I swear I could have held my breth for 20 minutes if I had to." Bryan States that after Zodiac had finished stabbing Cecilia, he stood up, observed Bryan and Cecelia for a short time, before walking off. Zodiac thought Bryan was dead, that's why he left him there without 'finishing him off', he thought he already was finished off. Again, Bryan outsmarted Zodiac with basic human survival instinct.
So what are you going to say about Mike Mageau surviving the attack at Blue Rock? Zodiac's shot him with bullets that weren't designed tp penetrate as deep as the ones he shot Dee with? Maybe Zodiac wasn't intending to Kill Mike, that's why, when he realized Mike was still alive after Mike screamed out in agony, Zodiac reloaded his gun and shot him several more times? No fatal intent there really, he was playing with Mike, wasn't he? Please!

If Zodiac had introduced himself to Bryan and Cecelia as Zodiac, they probably would not have been so compliant with his demands to tie each other up. By using the robbery ruse, he was able to make them do what he wanted. Recall how Bryan states that at no point (until Zodiac drew his knife, of course) did he feel that they were in any kind of mortal danger. He actually thought all that was going to happen was them being robbed of their money and vehicle.

Welsh Chappie wrote:The reason Bryan Survived is simple, other than his determination, courage etc, he was stabbed first, at which point, according to Bryan, Cecilia began to roll away from the hooded man stabbing him, and Zodiac noticed this, and got up before she could get any real distance away from him. At that point, as Zodiac is stabbing Cecilia, Bryan has stated several times down the years "It dawned on me that if i'm moving around, he's going to see that and come back and finish me off. So I played dead, quit breathing, I swear I could have held my breth for 20 minutes if I had to." Bryan States that after Zodiac had finished stabbing Cecilia, he stood up, observed Bryan and Cecelia for a short time, before walking off. Zodiac thought Bryan was dead, that's why he left him there without 'finishing him off', he thought he already was finished off. Again, Bryan outsmarted Zodiac with basic human survival instinct.
So what are you going to say about Mike Mageau surviving the attack at Blue Rock? Zodiac's shot him with bullets that weren't designed tp penetrate as deep as the ones he shot Dee with? Maybe Zodiac wasn't intending to Kill Mike, that's why, when he realized Mike was still alive after Mike screamed out in agony, Zodiac reloaded his gun and shot him several more times? No fatal intent there really, he was playing with Mike, wasn't he? Please!

Bottom line, the Z. left two living witnesses who lived to tell the tale of The Z., which is what he wanted, as he didn't come back to threaten or finish either one off.

To be fair, I've never heard of any serial killer who went back to finish the job after a victim survived.