Zodiackillersite.com

Tahoe27 wrote:Because it was so grandiose and different is exactly why some people question it.

Not sure why that would make them question it, the guy had a flair for the dramatic, that we know.

Mike Mageau lived.

That fact was in the paper the very next day, and subsequent days--even mentioned [Mike] "holds key to gun mystery". That didn't embarrass Zodiac. He still wrote.

There is some difference though, he struck terror into Mageau, and Mageau basically clammed up afterwards. Hartnell did TV interviews. I think it's probably as simple as Hartnell gave him the publicity and attention he craved and also he was busy planning and carrying out the Stine attack.

Hey Tahoe. I always thought it interesting how Bryan Hartnell in spite of having a stranger wearing an odd hood and pointing a pistol at him, never really took him as a threat. I mean, obviously he was a threat but he thought of it as a bizarre robbery and figured he could get a nice Sociology paper out of the experience.

I think this speaks to who Z was under the mask. Somebody who you wouldn't take serious. I don't know about you but sometimes in life, I hear people speaking to me and the way they speak (or voice) I just can't listen to them or take them serious. I know that sounds bad but I'm sure we can all relate.

What do you think?

CuriousCat wrote:

Tahoe27 wrote:Because it was so grandiose and different is exactly why some people question it.

Not sure why that would make them question it, the guy had a flair for the dramatic, that we know.

Not when it came to the (other) attacks themselves. The writing yes, which is why the lack of it is questioned.

Hurdy_Gurdy_Man wrote:Hey Tahoe. I always thought it interesting how Bryan Hartnell in spite of having a stranger wearing an odd hood and pointing a pistol at him, never really took him as a threat. I mean, obviously he was a threat but he thought of it as a bizarre robbery and figured he could get a nice Sociology paper out of the experience.

I think this speaks to who Z was under the mask. Somebody who you wouldn't take serious. I don't know about you but sometimes in life, I hear people speaking to me and the way they speak (or voice) I just can't listen to them or take them serious. I know that sounds bad but I'm sure we can all relate.

What do you think?

I go back and forth. I don't think most people would ever think what happened to Bryan and Cecelia would happen--including them. Yes, the man made it sound like they would just be robbed, but how could they not have seen the knife and clothesline too? That whole get-up would have scared the crap out of me! It is somewhat telling that Bryan thought he could outwit him, but maybe Bryan was just a cocky college guy.

Tahoe27 wrote:
Not when it came to the (other) attacks themselves.

Stine's murder was pretty darned dramatic. We don't know what he did at LHR, we wouldn't have known what he did at LB if both had died immediately.

The writing yes, which is why the lack of it is questioned.

The letters were a reflection of his personality.

He did his writing concerning LB on the door of Hartnell's car, 'nuff said in his mind most likely. I do think he was referring to the LB attack when he said he was "the man who did in the people in the North Bay Area".

That whole get-up would have scared the crap out of me!

Same here. I said in another thread here if I saw that coming at me he would have had to shoot me in the back when I was running away because that would have scared the crap out of me. I understand Zodiac wasn't well known like he is now but still, seeing that get up I think I would have known it wasn't just a robbery.

It is somewhat telling that Bryan thought he could outwit him, but maybe Bryan was just a cocky college guy.

He kept his cool and tried to think his way out of the situation. I would have been pissing my pants. Men younger than Bryan was at the time have led armies. Some guys have it, some don't.

I've always wondered if Zodiac could hear Bryan and Cecelia calling out to the fisherman ?

Does anyone know if Bryan's car could be seen from the crime scene ?

Hurdy_Gurdy_Man wrote:Hey Tahoe. I always thought it interesting how Bryan Hartnell in spite of having a stranger wearing an odd hood and pointing a pistol at him, never really took him as a threat. I mean, obviously he was a threat but he thought of it as a bizarre robbery and figured he could get a nice Sociology paper out of the experience.

I think this speaks to who Z was under the mask. Somebody who you wouldn't take serious. I don't know about you but sometimes in life, I hear people speaking to me and the way they speak (or voice) I just can't listen to them or take them serious. I know that sounds bad but I'm sure we can all relate.

What do you think?

Totally agree. Zodiac was a nobody, the kind of person who wouldn't elicit a second look on the street from anybody, perhaps even someone so pathetic you'd even turn your head to avoid making eye-contact. He wasn't powerful, he had no control, and that's why he had to create this character.

And as for Bryan, every time I hear him talk about how he crawled for help to try and save his friend's life, I choke up. The man's a damn hero, plain and simple.

Pettibon Junction wrote:
Totally agree. Zodiac was a nobody, the kind of person who wouldn't elicit a second look on the street from anybody, perhaps even someone so pathetic you'd even turn your head to avoid making eye-contact. He wasn't powerful, he had no control, and that's why he had to create this character.

Agreed, he was someone who couldn't garner respect and admiration in real life, Zodiac was his way of feeling powerful.

And as for Bryan, every time I hear him talk about how he crawled for help to try and save his friend's life, I choke up. The man's a damn hero, plain and simple.

Yes, he never panicked. His remaining calm probably kept things from being worse, I mean, Zodiac could have cut their throats to make sure. I think Bryan threw him off and as I said, might have even intimidated Zodiac. I feel like Bryan's actions that day at least gave them both a chance to survive and I think there was a good chance Cecelia could have survived if it didn't take so long for an ambulance to arrive.

Nonononono...there was no LB letter..

First, Z had only two weeks inbetween LB and Stine attack, thus he couldn't wait a month or so to send the letter. Second, Z explicitly 'excused' himself for not having written a letter.

"Sorry I haven't written but I just washed my pen.."

QT

Z gave precise details of his shootings at LHR, BRS, and PH. He mentions nothing of LB. This is because he didn't attack Cecelia and Bryan. It would've been ridiculously easy to cut a piece of Bryan's shirt and include it with a gloating letter but he didn't. 2 weeks later he was in full gloat mode with the Stine shirt as exhibit A.

This is why the descriptions from LB and the other crime scenes are so different, as well as the method of murder, time of day, costume not seen at BRS or PH, and on and on. Different killers, vastly different methods of operation. Both called themself Zodiac but that is virtually the only similarity.

The LB attacker was wearing a very well made hood, Hartnell commented that it was not simply "thrown together" and that the symbol looked like it had been made very skillfully and with great care. Was this a zodiac "wanna-be"? I am not sure.

...though it does have some key features which differ from the other zodiac attacks...

I have coincidentally come up with a different "most likely perpetrator" for each of the zodiac crimes...

...if it were not for the letters to the press, the phoned confession calls, and the notes left at the crime scenes, would these crimes have ever even been connected?

There is something odd about the zodiac case in that by all means it should have been solved by now, yet every attempt has failed. I mean, what was this? What was this really about? What is the real story here?

The zodiac case is like starting to read a murder mystery novel, but finding that the section at the end of the book where the killer is identified and his evil plan is explained in detail is missing... ...it's frustrating.

I mean, if ross Sullivan was the killer of Cheri jo Bates, if Richard Hoffman was the shooter at blue rock springs, and Arthur Leigh allen was the killer lake berryessa, then how did these crimes ever get connected in the manner in which they did?

It would make sense if "zodiac" was actually a few people working together, but the people would have to know each other and have real connections to one another, I mean, it can't be a different killer for each crime with these killers not knowing each other or being connected in some way...

The zodiac case in general is odd... There must be something that we have all missed that will make this all fit together.