Zodiackillersite.com

Coffee Time wrote:Because finding something like that means I have to stay up all night looking through them all...

I for one am going to curtail the time I spend on these boards. Bryan wasn't sure of the name of the prison and was in a crisis state when he was questioned. IMO, LE would have heavily publicized the names of any escapees who weren't caught, wouldn't you think? Or at least state the names and then try to locate them? Since that doesn't seem to have happened, I presume all escapees have been accounted for and therefore are not the Zodiac.

I really feel Zodiac just lied about that to Bryan as if he really had escaped from any prison, I'd think it would be well-known by now. His lie doesn't make sense either since he didn't take Bryan's car to flee to Mexico! I think the whole lie was told just to scare Bryan and Cecelia more than they were by just seeing the costume.

In fact, Bryan and Cecelia may not even have appeared frightened at first to Zodiac's dismay. They were relaxing and could have even thought someone was playing a joke on them.

capricorn wrote:

Coffee Time wrote:Because finding something like that means I have to stay up all night looking through them all...

I for one am going to curtail the time I spend on these boards. Bryan wasn't sure of the name of the prison and was in a crisis state when he was questioned. IMO, LE would have heavily publicized the names of any escapees who weren't caught, wouldn't you think? Or at least state the names and then try to locate them? Since that doesn't seem to have happened, I presume all escapees have been accounted for and therefore are not the Zodiac.

I really feel Zodiac just lied about that to Bryan as if he really had escaped from any prison, I'd think it would be well-known by now. His lie doesn't make sense either since he didn't take Bryan's car to flee to Mexico! I think the whole lie was told just to scare Bryan and Cecelia more than they were by just seeing the costume.

In fact, Bryan and Cecelia may not even have appeared frightened at first to Zodiac's dismay. They were relaxing and could have even thought someone was playing a joke on them.

I can almost agree except for the fact that escapes were not highly publicized. I have only found anything about in in very few papers. While he was likely not an escaped con, he had knowledge of the prison. That alone is odd to me as I couldn't tell you the name of a single prison in Atlanta, yet I have lived here my entire life.

capricorn wrote:IMO, LE would have heavily publicized the names of any escapees who weren't caught, wouldn't you think? Or at least state the names and then try to locate them? Since that doesn't seem to have happened, I presume all escapees have been accounted for and therefore are not the Zodiac.

Frank Dryman fled Montana while on parole for murder and wasn't recaptured till 38 years later. LE did look into the Deer Lodge angle, but if prints and handwriting are the end-all be-all to solving the case, why was Allen persecuted for decades when he wasn't a match for either?

can someone point me to documentation that shows "deer lodge" was actually what the perp said to hartnell? i see a lot of theories about deer lodge connections but so far i don't see where it's been shown that he said deer lodge. hartnell says in his interview from the hospital that he couldn't remember what he said. the night of the lb stabbing he told the ranger "colorado" and not "montana". see below:


the police report (ncsd crime report, page 6) indicates ranger white, who found the victims, stated "the male victim (hartnell) related to him that the subject advised him he was an ex-con out of Colorado".

the police report (ncsd crime report, page 17) indicating a preliminary conversation with hartnell indicated "suspect told victim he was sent to (?) Lodge State Prison (possibly Deer Lodge State Prison), Montana, for a killing".

in hartnell's hospital interview (page 2) he says "and he (perp) says 'nah.. time's running short,' he says, 'cause i just got out of...' - some prison in Montana, I don't know what the name of it is. Feathers? Do you know what the name of it is? I'll see if it sounds familiar. Fern or Feathers? It's some double name, like Fern Lock or something..." the cop then replies, "It's Lodge" and Hartnell says "Oh yeah, yeah, Lodge. At least we know we're together on that." Then the cop says "Mountain Lodge Prison, or something of that nature..."

vasa croe wrote:I can almost agree except for the fact that escapes were not highly publicized. I have only found anything about in in very few papers. While he was likely not an escaped con, he had knowledge of the prison. That alone is odd to me as I couldn't tell you the name of a single prison in Atlanta, yet I have lived here my entire life.

Well, there was a riot in 1959 that made national headlines, although that was quite some time before LB. It's possible that Zodiac could have learned about it then, though it seems like the recent prison break would've been a more likely inspiration for his story about escaping from a Montana prison, than a riot from 10 years before.

9/27 - stabbing and report from ranger white that hartnell told him perp said he was from a prison in colorado
9/28 - interview in hospital where hartnell says he can't remember the name of the prison. cop replies it was something "lodge". then suggest "mountain lodge prison" indicating even the officer didn't know it was deer lodge.
9/29 - police reports start saying it was "deer lodge montana", although ncsd report, page six still mentions ranger white report that it was "colorado"
10/3 - nicolai doj report says "montana deer lodge"

unknown date - hartnell "official" transcript lists "deer lodge in montana" - this was a follow-up to his hospital interview.

so basically, hartnell never said "deer lodge" anything until prompted by the police and then subsequently it shows up in police reports and the official transcript as "deer lodge" even though hartnell initially said colorado and then said he couldn't remember the name of the place.

my 2 cents = connecting deer lodge to zodiac even if he HAD said that would be far-fetched, but i can't even find evidence that's what was said. if i'm missing some document or fact, please point me in the right direction.

masootz wrote:if i'm missing some document or fact, please point me in the right direction.

Wish I could - but I can't and I don't think you are missing anything. The Deer Lodge thing has puzzled me for a long time - posted about it in another thread too. For my money it's not obvious at all what Z told Bryan. The latter goes from "Feathers" to "Fern Lock" and then Robertson more or less concludes on Bryan's behalf that it's not "lock" but "lodge". And that's it. Robertson doesn't get the "Deer" part right, which should be noted - he says "Mountain Lodge...or something" (or words to that effect).

My take on this is that it seems as though "Deer Lodge" comes from the fact that Bryan says "Montana" more than anything - what he actually seems to recall is closer to "Fern Lock" than "Deer Lodge". The latter comes from the fact that Robertson knows there's such a prison in Montana. And that's well and good - but if Bryan is mistaken about Montana, then it's all a bit pointless.

And he said Colorado, not Montana, to White.

Well, I don't know - I don't think it actually matters either way, to be honest. Z was lying about everything - of that I have little doubt. I don't think he had any connection to Deer Lodge, Montana, even if this was the place he mentioned (and not, say, Feather Ridge, Colorado). Which means that I personally wouldn't build the tiniest part of any theory on the presumption that Deer Lodge has any significance.