Zodiackillersite.com

Sandy I thought paper sack guy might have been wearing glasses under that hood, too.

A few days ago I had a group of Z friends ( including Zamantha) over for after Thanksgiving dinner and to talk about the Zodiac case. I showed my copy of what was found in my car Sept 28th or 29th 1969. I put it on to show that without the clip-on glasses, the hood would not move when I turned my head.
Zodiac needed the clip on's, so that when he turned his head the hood would follow. The clip on's not only were simi -attached to the hood , they were clipped to the glasses under the hood. The logo that was on the black poncho part of the costume may or may not have been sewn on like Hartnell stated. It could have been done like the copy I made that only looks as if like it is sewn on .
When the black paper hood is on with the black cotton poncho, they look as if they both are from cloth.
I challenge any of you who can sew, to try and make a hood that has 4 corners and stands straight up with a flat top. Why would Zodiac go through all that , when all he needed to do is get a paper sack and make it match the black poncho?

If I was making up a story about finding the killing costume in my car, wouldn't I make it sound more like what was described in the newspaper? Victims who are traumatized to the extent that Hartnell was, forget crucial details( That is a fact). When they repeat it over and over again, it becomes fact in their minds. When he said it resembled a "paper sack", he was correct, because that is exactly what it was! Being it was black, made him think it had to be made from the same cloth as the part he knew was cotton.
People who want to disregard the truth of the matter, are missing a crucial part of the case. If you will take off your blinders and look at this as a huge connection to the killer, together we might get a heck of a lot closer to catching the true Zodiac. What harm can come from trying? I believe that there is harm in not trying.

Sandy....

If I were going to finish off a paper sack to wear over my head I think I would rather spray paint. If Z finished it off with a felt marker he'd pass out from the smell. Those old markers, the smell just didn't dissipate, it could linger for a long time. Having your head inside the bag it would be like sniffing glue. I would think Bryan couldn't help but smell a bag covered in marker pen. I hadn't thought about what you stated with the bag, weather cloth or paper, wouldn't just turn when you turned your head, but that makes sense. I bet Z didn't know that either when he first designed the hood. You have to connect your head to the hood somehow, his ears apparently weren't visible at all. Does the paper hood makes noise as you turn your head, I would think paper would, something Bryan might have noticed if it were paper vs. cloth.

BayArea60's

BA 60's I wore the copy hood covered with black felt pen with in minutes of it drying and it didn't have a smell so strong that it would make be ill or high. The inside of the paper sack didn't have any of the ink, it didn't seep through , so I could hardly smell it while I wore it.
Paper doesn't breathe , that is why Zodiac was sweating so much under the hood , which made his hair look wet.
As far as Hartnell smelling it, smell rises and Zodiac was always above Hartnell and at a distance. The only time that he was very close to Hartnell, Hartnell was on his stomach with his face to the ground. Any breeze going in the opposite direction could cause it to not be noticed, if it were strong in the outside air?
I didn't notice the smell in my car until I rolled up the windows and was driving home, the heat in the car caused the smell to be strong. It didn't make my baby sick. It was just enough that I wasn't going to keep it, so I threw it in the garbage outside.
I don't remember it smelling when I picked it up to see what the heck was wadded up, then I opened it and saw that it was some sort of a mask. Like one would wear for Halloween. My neighbor didn't mention anything about it smelling either.
Inside of the warm car with the windows closed,it was very noticeable, outside of the car was not noticeable.

Darlene's sister had mentioned to me that the man who sat at Terry's and who was in the suit at the painting party, smelled of leather( Like what a person would smell like if they worked at a leather tanning company). If that was the Zodiac, then Hartnell didn't notice the smell of leather either. If there was a noticeable odor to Zodiac perhaps Hartnell forgot about it like he did about the gloves that Zodiac had on and he didn't remember. Being traumatized can cause one to forget many things, some that may not seem important.

Black boot polish would be an option to blacken a normal paper bag..and it would smell like that.

QT

Yeah boot polish would be about the same...And we don't know Z may have placed vents into the back, or the top of the hood. Since he had the only opening, the eyes, covered with glasses it would be stifling under that hood. He would have no air flow at all, his glasses would quickly fog up. He must have had that figured out to some degree. Just wearing a mask with eyes holes, nose holes, and mouth opening can be stifling. He obviously had that end of the hood figured out.

Bayarea60s wrote:Yeah boot polish would be about the same...And we don't know Z may have placed vents into the back, or the top of the hood. Since he had the only opening, the eyes, covered with glasses it would be stifling under that hood. He would have no air flow at all, his glasses would quickly fog up. He must have had that figured out to some degree. Just wearing a mask with eyes holes, nose holes, and mouth opening can be stifling. He obviously had that end of the hood figured out.

The eye openings were large not slits as mentioned before. There could have been a slit for the nose I really don't remember, but for sure it wasn't a cut out like the eyes.
Remember that Hartnell was able to see his hair in those eye holes, so there was plenty enough air from there.
It is warm under the paper hood in the sun and being black would make it worse.
I would think that as soon as he stabbed them , he took it off as he walked away. So how long would he have had it on? The time it took to walk from behind the tree and to tie them up then stab them, my guess is about 20 min maybe less?

QT you mentioned that he perhaps took it off when he was at my car and then put it in my car. I think he took it off right away,long before he got to Hartnell's car.
For sure it is warm under that hood in the sun not so much at 6pm -6:30. He could have put everything inside of the paper sack after walking away ,taking off the poncho, even the left over clothesline.

Being it was dark like his jacket, perhaps that is why the witnesses who saw him walking didn't notice him carrying anything?
For the clothes line to be taken before the attack and the costume in my car after the attack, he would have had to have pre-planned it. The only thing that makes any sense to me about that, is he wanted to make it look like my husband who was a bartender at the Coronado Inn and who "could have" dated Darlene,make him look like he was the killer?
Nothing else makes any sense to me.

"Someone" bought me a brand new package of white hollow core plastic clothes line and placed it on my front porch some 20 yrs later, that was when I remembered about mine being taken in 1969. Before that ,I had thought that the things were put in my car by accident! In 87 when I read the z book I saw his car was brown, so was mine, so it made sense to me he thought he put those things in his car. That all changed with the new clothes line on my porch, only the person who took it would remember that !

Something else that I feel is important is the fact that the man who has played games with me over the yrs, is the same man who has tormented Darlene's sister Pam. How I know this for sure ,is that she had written down some of his license plate numbers and one of them was one I had written down. (It was VLT 885 or VLT 855 ?) She trembled and cried when I showed her the picture I took of him in 1990, saying that is the man who killed my sister, please turn the picture over so I don't see his face.

She and I had been told by Harvey that the man was Larry Kane. I was also a believer of that because VPD also said the picture was that of Larry Kane. It wasn't until Kane had died and I was still seeing the man I had the picture of, that is when I knew he couldn't be Kane,that he only looked like him. This same man is a suspect in the 12 murders in Antioch/ Pittsburg area in the mid 1980's to mid 1990's. What are the odds of him not being Zodiac ,when you put all of the pieces together? If there is anyway that I can be proven wrong , please show me. Until then why not take a long hard look at this man? If together we can get his name, I can then do a paper trail to see what we can come up with. Seagull is very good with paper trails,I am sure she would help. Thank you QT for believing in me, that means a lot to me and showing that this is not just about me or my suspect, it is about catching thee Zodiac.

A bit off topic, but there is an excellent video with Pam. She claims two things: First that Darlene had known Cheri Jo Bates and as well had witnessed her murder. Second that Darlene was babysitting Betty Lou. If true, both is very interesting, imo. To me it doesn't appear that Pam wants to bragg around, she rather seems to be honest about what she says.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEilZL2JTUw


QT

QT, Sadly it was proven not to be true. Pam was very frustrated with the police and wanted her sisters murderer caught, so she told many things ( That is my guess) to try to get the police to listen to what she knew about her sisters killer.
I do believe that Darlene knew Zodiac and knew that he called himself Zodiac, that could be why he didn't name himself publicly until after he killed her? I do believe that Pam had spoken to him at the so called painting party and saw him at Terry's.

As far as Darlene having Betty Lou babysit for Deana, that was proven not to be true by Betty Lou's mother. Pam also said that Darlene took rides with Paul Stine in the cab in SF, Paul was not a cab driver when Darlene was alive. I don't believe we were able to find any connections to any Zodiac victims and Darlene.
I do know that the things that were happening to Pam
in Antioch and Pittsburg when she lived there , were true , because the same things were happening to me at the same times. She would call me whenever she received a scary phone call, I would get one with in a minute or so of hers.
Last Oct, she received 25 calls form a man asking if Sandy Betts was at her home? Who ever this man is he connects the two of us for whatever reason? I did ask her what did the man's voice sound like? She said it was raspy sounding. I have never mentioned to her what my caller sounded like ,for her to know that he has a raspy voice.

There were times he sounded like a robot, but even then it was raspy sounding.( Probably because he is a heavy chain smoker)

sandy betts wrote:She would call me whenever she received a scary phone call, I would get one with in a minute or so of hers.

If this is correct, Zodiac knows both of you. Have you ever spoken to Pam regarding people you both may know? Or places where Z could have met both of you? Please rethink, besides of your suspect, if there is anything like that..thx.

QT