Clip-on sunglasses

[Norse]

Small point - just something I noticed while reading through diverse documents and statements earlier today:

It seems - to me, I stress this, I could be mistaken - to be some discrepancies as far as Zodiac's glasses at LB are concerned. I seem to have read BOTH that his "clip-on" sunglasses served an actual clip-on purpose, i.e. that he wore them over a pair of real, let's say, prescription glasses - AND that they were just clipped onto the fabric of his hood, i.e. that they only served to mask his features further.

Now, the only person who actually saw him wearing these clip-on glasses was Hartnell - and he seems, in the transcripts I've been reading just now, to say that they served the latter purpose - i.e. that Z didn't have "proper" glasses under his hood.

So, my question is twofold:

1) Is there a report/memo anywhere that mentions Z having "real" glasses under the clip-on shades - or have I dreamt this?

2) Might this be significant in any way? And by the latter I mean: IF the Zodiac killer had real, prescription lenses on under his hood and his clip-on shades (which only served as a disguise), well - then perhaps there's a reason we all think of him as a guy with glasses...he needed them. He donned a costume at LB, a cartoonish one at that, but he needed to wear his trusty glasses behind the mask in order to see anything. The glasses in the composite ain't part of a disguise - he actually needed glasses.

[Tahoe27]

I believe it was only the clip-on's and would go by Bryan Hartnell's statement since it was first hand.
http://www.zodiackiller.com/HartnellInterview5.html
http://www.zodiackiller.com/LBReport23.html

The rest are third-party:

--Ranger Sgt. White reported, via Cecelia, that the suspect had on "what appeared to be clip-on sunglasses to cover his eyes".
http://www.zodiackiller.com/LBReport7.html

--Mrs. Elizabeth White (no relation to Sgt. White) reported Cecelia told her "the responsible was wearing glasses, with dark clip-on glasses over the hood"
http://www.zodiackiller.com/LBReport8.html

I believe due to Mrs. White's statement, it has been misunderstood by many for a lot of years that this man wore glasses.

Most people would put the clip-ons directly on to other glasses so it sounds like Cecelia or Mrs. White simply thought he had the clip-ons on top of other glasses outside of the hood.

This will forever be an argument no doubt.

[morf13]

I think it would be easier to put them over real,actual glasses. But, maybe we will never know for sure.
The mystery guy, seen watching the women close to that scene, was NOT wearing glasses, and his clothing closely matched Zodiac. Yet, then again, Z had glasses in his next attack of Paul Stine, so who knows. Personally, I think he wore glasses,but just my own guess

[Quicktrader]

On 9/27/69, sunset was shortly before 7:00 pm..so I guess at around 7:10 pm there was no need to wear any glasses at all. Obviously Z had waited until sunset before he had started his attack.

On page 8 (Mrs. White) the report says that the three girls had seen the man on the 'previous Saturday'...does that mean that they hadn't seen the guy on 27th but rather on 21st? And, that Dean who reported about the three potential witnesses (girls), was he somehow connected to Bryan Hartnell or Cecilia Shepard?

QT

[morf13]

On 9/27/69, sunset was shortly before 7:00 pm..so I guess at around 7:10 pm there was no need to wear any glasses at all. Obviously Z had waited until sunset before he had started his attack.

On page 8 (Mrs. White) the report says that the three girls had seen the man on the 'previous Saturday'...does that mean that they hadn't seen the guy on 27th but rather on 21st? And, that Dean who reported about the three potential witnesses (girls), was he somehow connected to Bryan Hartnell or Cecilia Shepard?

QT

No, the statement/report, was written days AFTER the attack, and when it reads "previous Saturday", it's referring back to the day of the attack. The reports are easily confused sometimes based on how they were written, that's exactly why Graysmith wrote in his book, that James Owen was driving home from Humble Oil on the night of the 12/20/68 attack,when he was actually driving TO work.

[Bayarea60s]

Bryan made the statement and so did Cecilia that Z had clip-ons. The simplest explanation would be that Z had glasses on, and that's why he chose clip-ons, so no one could see his eyes. I could never understand if he had a hood made of cloth, or paper, how he would attach, or sew on clip-ons to them?
Now the 3 girls it should be noted, did not have the guy they saw with glasses on, thus the composite that was made from their description. Was that Z? It was hours before the BH/CS attack. If that was Z, then it would suggest Z didn't need glasses to see, and so probably wasn't wearing glasses when he attacked BH/CS and somehow sewed the clip-ons to the hood.
While most men in the Bay Area back in the 60's who wore glasses wore the black framed glasses, like Z wore at PH. Most factories supplied their employees with safety glasses, that also had those black plastic frames. they were cheap and that's why the majority wore them. So it could be the glasses and Z really were no more then safety glasses. Z, back then, maybe didn't wear glasses at all.....

[Norse]

Thanks for your responses, everyone - some very good points made.

Both Morf and Bayarea touch on something which has struck me as well: what is normally referred to as "clip-on" glasses (or shades) are designed for being clipped on to a pair of regular glasses. I'm looking at a pair of clip-on shades as I'm writing this - and there would be no way for me to attach those to a hood as they are. I would need to use a pair of separate clips - or glue, or...something. You could attach them by sewing or stitching them on, I suppose.

[murray]

--Ranger Sgt. White reported, via Cecelia, that the suspect had on "what appeared to be clip-on sunglasses to cover his eyes".
http://www.zodiackiller.com/LBReport7.html

--Mrs. Elizabeth White (no relation to Sgt. White) reported Cecelia told her "the responsible was wearing glasses, with dark clip-on glasses over the hood"
http://www.zodiackiller.com/LBReport8.html

I believe due to Mrs. White's statement, it has been misunderstood by many for a lot of years that this man wore glasses.

Most people would put the clip-ons directly on to other glasses so it sounds like Cecelia or Mrs. White simply thought he had the clip-ons on top of other glasses outside of the hood.

This will forever be an argument no doubt.

I recall in some reports that Cecelia saw her killer without the hood on. I am not sure if that is true since Bryan was right there with her, but if that were the case maybe there is some weight to the idea that he had on glasses (even if those comments come by way of a 3rd party.)

[Norse]

--Ranger Sgt. White reported, via Cecelia, that the suspect had on "what appeared to be clip-on sunglasses to cover his eyes".
http://www.zodiackiller.com/LBReport7.html

--Mrs. Elizabeth White (no relation to Sgt. White) reported Cecelia told her "the responsible was wearing glasses, with dark clip-on glasses over the hood"
http://www.zodiackiller.com/LBReport8.html

I believe due to Mrs. White's statement, it has been misunderstood by many for a lot of years that this man wore glasses.

Most people would put the clip-ons directly on to other glasses so it sounds like Cecelia or Mrs. White simply thought he had the clip-ons on top of other glasses outside of the hood.

This will forever be an argument no doubt.

I recall in some reports that Cecelia saw her killer without the hood on. I am not sure if that is true since Bryan was right there with her, but if that were the case maybe there is some weight to the idea that he had on glasses (even if those comments come by way of a 3rd party.)

She did see him before he put his "costume" on - that is confirmed by Hartnell's statement(s) too. She saw him approaching, moving behind a tree (where he would have put the hood on), then re-appearing, wielding a gun.

But to my knowledge she never said anything about what he looked like before he re-emerged wearing the Zodiac outfit. She just saw some guy approaching them, moving behind a tree. Hartnell asked her what he was doing, suggesting he might be taking a leak - and then, boom, he comes out wielding a gun, wearing his hood.

[murray]

Thank you, Norse.

Then I guess it wasn't close enough, or with long enough exposure, to observe whether glasses or not. and even if it were, there aren't the extensive interviews like Bryan was able to do (unfortunately for Cecilia.)