The 3 Girls - I Think Saw Who Attacked Bryan & Cecelia

[morf13]

This is certainly an interesting discussion you have going, sure makes you think a lot. There was a map floating around, either on this site, or zk.com, I forget where, but shows the location where the girls had their encounter, and where Z attacked(an possibly where the Doctor & Son saw the mystery Guy, I can't remember). Anybody recall this map? Anyhow, I seem to recall that all 3 locations were reasonably close together,although at various times.

Tahoe wrote "Most know my stance, but to me whether or not the guy was Zodiac doesn't affect my opinion. If the guy was or wasn't Zodiac, to me the guy the girls saw, the doc and his son saw and who attacked Bryan and Cecelia are the same man"

Didn't the Doctor & son describe a Guy that didn't seem to resemble the one the Girls saw, at least physically?

[Tahoe27]

It's on page 1 of this thread morf.

Description of the man the Dr. & son saw. In Zodiac Unmasked Graysmith mentions something about the guy being bald. Not in any PD report either way.

http://www.zodiackiller.com/LBReport6.html

[Norse]

Hehe, old Bobby G would mention him being bald, wouldn't he? Nice bit of leading questioning going on when he interviewed one of the girls years after the fact too, pretty much taking it for granted that Z was a swimmer and so forth.

Anyway, just a minor detail but I thought I'd clarify it nonetheless:

What I meant above, regarding the clothesline = belt/t-shirt thing: If we presuppose that Mr Creepy was the assailant and that he carried the clothesline in the fashion described by Hartnell, what the girls would have seen is - I presume, but I'm happy to be corrected - not white clothesline in general (as it were) but rather a bundle of clothesline protruding from the man's back pocket. In other words a fairly small object and an object of a particular shape. My question is whether it's likely that someone would have mistaken such an object for either a belt or a t-shirt sticking out at the back.

[Norse]

Also, going by the testimonies in the report: There is a discrepancy here. Mr Creepy wears a short sleeve shirt/pullover/whathaveyou. The mystery man (doc/son) wears a long sleeve shirt (with red in it).

The similarities, garment wise, between the three subjects are these two:

They all wear dark clothes.

Mr Creepy and the assailant both wear slacks/dress pants/something of the sort.

In the Graysmith interview mentioned above, the witness (one of the three girls) mentions "pleated" in one form or another - but this is not included in the original report, and given the "swimmer" spin RG obviously has put on it, we may perhaps surmise that he has offered up the "pleated" part too (though not necessarily as a means to force ALA on the witness - he may have "refreshed" her memory simply by citing Hartnell's description of Z).

[Tahoe27]

Yes Norse. I stand corrected. None of the girls mention "pleated" in their descriptions in the police reports. Although, lack of mentioning pleated doesn't change my point of view. We have more than clothes to consider, but those still work for me. As you mentioned, Zodiac probably had something else under that jacket.

I appreciate your point of view Norse. You know I value your opinion, but because we don't see eye-to-eye here doesn't mean I know longer think you are swell.

[Norse]

Far too kind, T – not even my mom would go as far as to call me swell. Swell-ish, maybe – at the most.

But thanks – and right back at you.

[twogunsid]

I too think the three girls saw Zodiac. I'm not sure how I can reconcile the vehicle wheelbase difference in the car they reported seeing him in and what was measured at the crime scene parking area. Maybe that's not important as witnesses can misremember details like vehicle make, model and year.

[Tahoe27]

For me, there is just no way to know for sure that it was the car of their attacker. It was 20' behind Bryan's and there were no footprints to nor from the area of the tire tracks.

[Nick, no Nora]

So here's my observation ...
1) I can buy the sketch either as another guy or as the guy at PH.
2) After PH, Zodiac claims he uses disguises. So either 1) he was telling the truth, and we can assume he had a disguise at LB, or 2) he was lying, and PH was an accurate representation. I lean toward 2.

But the real Beryessa mystery is the tire tracks. We have a car description from the girls that doesn't square well with the wheelbase at the crime scene. Generally the witness testimony just seems to point to two cars involved in these crimes - a larger light-colored Chevy and a smaller darker Ford-ish. If that is true, then at Beryessa you have to ask, did Z go home and come back in a different car? If so, how does the timeframe account for that? We have him with the girls and Chevy until 4:45. Then we appear to have him in a smaller car at the crime scene at about 6:30. And it's an hour's drive to Vallejo, correct? That's a very tight squeeze.

[Tahoe27]

Since I think the guy the doc/dentist and his son saw was their attacker, I don't think he was parked behind Bryan's car when he attacked them. No footprints to or from his car to Bryan's or the path either.