Zodiackillersite.com

if hartnell was right on description and I dont discount what he saw...rules out lotta poi skinny white guys..i am still not convinced ALA was not involved..the stine description has confounded me for years..not sure what to make of it..may be it is wrong and what everybody saw was X and not Z..i just dunno..ive toyed with the idea stine was not a Z crime and somebody just faked the whole Z persona (may be Gaik???)..toyed with it not at all do I believe stine was anything other than a PO'ed Z who was tired of the public not believing he could do a brazen crime and not get caught (I think Z thought of himself at the time as able to stop bullets so to speak)...i dunno just some thoughts I have tossed around at times..

Time traveler wrote:foggy san Francisco night

A minor point but I believe that's a Graysmith-ism?

Anywho,

I thought I'd take a look at the 2 Berryessa composites and compare them to the ..... also 2, Presidio Heights comps. Odd that.

I gotta say I never considered them looking alike. Now I know I have 'transplanted' the now infamous glasses on to them but that's more just par for the course with these things. We all wanna see what it would look like with them on. That's not what interests me though. I have scaled them as bes tI could and to be honest it wasn't that hard. The relative distances between the features are pretty much the same between them. Then there's the nose shape and the general shape of the lips. To my eyes the different composites appear to be attempting to convey similar feature traits.

They might not be as different as we all suspected. I don't know but to me they look more alike than I thought.



A simpler option for comparison.

traveller1st wrote:

Time traveler wrote:foggy san Francisco night

A minor point but I believe that's a Graysmith-ism?

Yeah i have never read anything he has ever written and i don't think i ever will.But it did kinda sound like his bs though.

Well before we go putting holes in anyone's head. If the person the 3 gals saw was Z. And the car Z was driving was found to be the one the cops think was parked behind Bryan's car. Then we have 2 different cars. The wheelbase the cops measured, does not match the car, '66-67 Chevy the 3 gals got a very good look at.
I think when the attack happened Z was wearing a jacket, not so sure he was wearing a jacket when the gals saw their guy. Also when the dentists son gave his statement he mentioned the person he saw had a shirt similiar to what the gals had mentioned, except the boy said there was red in the shirt he saw, and he witnessed the guy heading up towards the road I believe.
Too bad, Narlow and company didn't go back to the gals site and look for shoe prints there, and pick up some cigarette butts. I wish the LB case was that clean that we could state that for sure the guy the gals saw was Z. I've always thought it was the same guy, but I have no proof. The gals saw their guy hours before the attack and over a mile to the north, and the car wheelbase doesn't match. Lots of room there for doubt.

The girls also didn't say they saw the suspect wearing a black hood with a circle and cross on the bib The jacket was part of the hooded outfit.I think when he saw the karmann ghia he parked got out and looked for its occupants.then he saw bryan and cece near the lake he then put on the jacket and belt holster garbbed the hood walked down behind the tree he put the hood on and BOOM.After he done his thing walked back takes hood off then writes on car door.But for the tire tracks maybe something happened to the car and it needed new tires how many tracks were there because in the police photo all i see is one i don't know if that's a rope or what the photo does not show them well. maybe it came from a spare tire That's what i think anyway.

Time traveler wrote:The girls also didn't say they saw the suspect wearing a black hood with a circle and cross on the bib The jacket was part of the hooded outfit.I think when he saw the karmann ghia he parked got out and looked for its occupants.then he saw bryan and cece near the lake he the put on the jacket and belt holster garbbed the hood walked down behind the tree he put the hood on and BOOM.After he done his thing walked back takes hood off then writes on car door.But for the tire tracks maybe something happened to the car and it needed new different tires how many tracks were there because in the police photo all i see is one i don't know if that's a rope or what the photo does not show them well. maybe it came from a spare tire That's what i think anyway.

Cece?

Tahoe27 wrote:

Time traveler wrote:The girls also didn't say they saw the suspect wearing a black hood with a circle and cross on the bib The jacket was part of the hooded outfit.I think when he saw the karmann ghia he parked got out and looked for its occupants.then he saw bryan and cece near the lake he the put on the jacket and belt holster garbbed the hood walked down behind the tree he put the hood on and BOOM.After he done his thing walked back takes hood off then writes on car door.But for the tire tracks maybe something happened to the car and it needed new different tires how many tracks were there because in the police photo all i see is one i don't know if that's a rope or what the photo does not show them well. maybe it came from a spare tire That's what i think anyway.

Cece?

Yeah i saw the name on a kcra news transcript on toms site thought it was a nickname bryan gave her

Time Traveler you asked:

"I don't see why most everyone wants the presidio sketch to be zodiac.I mean what you going to believe witnesses on a foggy san Francisco night or 3 witnesses on a sunny afternoon."

My answer to which I would give more attention & credence to is...The teen witnesses. And that is me speaking from a totally non-biased opinion because the Lake B composite looks far more like the guy I have championed as Z, that being, Larry Kane than the Presidio Composite does. But firstly, it wasn't a fog soaked night with visibility being 1 to 3 ft. The report states the teens view of the cab and offender was 'Unobstructed.'

Secondly, a patrolman saw the suspect also that night and he was asked to look at the composite and give his opinion on it's accuracy and he told Toschi that the face in the composite looked similar to the man that he had seen on October 11, but that the suspect was actually older and heavier.

Case and Point:
Composite based on teens description .

Composite as Fouke remembers him:

As for Brian's describing Z's hair freely coming down over his forehead and appearing greacy? It was probably hot under that hood which, combined with his raised nervousness and anxiety (Hartnell recalls Zodiac's hands literally trembling when he came to check his bindings) his hair would have looked fairly unkemped through the eye slits.

Welsh Chappie wrote:
As for Brian's describing Z's hair freely coming down over his forehead and appearing greacy? It was probably hot under that hood which, combined with his raised nervousness and anxiety (Hartnell recalls Zodiac's hands literally trembling when he came to check his bindings) his hair would have looked fairly unkemped through the eye slits.

Nice that you point out the hair i think i also remember the 3 girls saying the suspect had something in his hair grease or hair gel

It was not foggy the night Paul Stine was killed. The eye witnesses did not have to contend with fog, it did not obstruct their vision.

The weather for that night.

http://www.wunderground.com/history/air ... California

The humidity that night at 11:00pm was 53% but you need a much higher humidity for fog to form.