Zodiackillersite.com

Its ok T, no apology needed I just wondered where it was taken from because I've didn't recall it being in the BRS Police report. Thank you Deb for supplying the link

Its been a while since I read the BRS report so I must have either overlooked it or forgot about that comment in it. But now you bring it to light I cant decide if I should read too much into it considering Mike states in the 2007 on screen Documentary Interview that "He had black, jet black hair. Curly."

Welsh Chappie wrote:Its ok T, no apology needed I just wondered where it was taken from because I've didn't recall it being in the BRS Police report. Thank you Deb for supplying the link

Its been a while since I read the BRS report so I must have either overlooked it or forgot about that comment in it. But now you bring it to light I cant decide if I should read too much into it considering Mike states in the 2007 on screen Documentary Interview that "He had black, jet black hair. Curly."

I'd be more inclined to go by what he said hours after the attack, than what he said after 40 years of influence and rambling about things that didn't quite happen. He seems to be trying to convince himself of what he says in that video. "Richard, yah, yah, it was Richard, that's the name she told me"...and "I laid there for hours"...etc.

But hey, if black curly hair works for you!

I mean if we use all the eye witness testimony combined to draw up a description of Zodiac then we'd have something like the following:

Suspect description:

Age: Mid to Late Twenties, between 35 - 45.
Weight: Overweight, 210 - 250lbs with protruding stomach and described as Medium to heavy build, barrel chested, 170 - 210lbs.
Hair: Dark brown, curly with overhanging fringe and a blonde, reddish crew cut with widows peak.
Last seen: Having a chat with a few SFPD Officers 4 minutes after shooting victim in head.

Do not approach, suspect considered armed and dangerous. Call 911 instantly and tell operator that you wish to report a sighting of 'The Zodiac' making sure to confirm to the operator "He is A White Male, I say, A White Male who isn't black but White. Suspect is known to take extreme measures to avoid capture and may cunningly fool everyone by walking up some steps.

Tahoe27 wrote:

Welsh Chappie wrote:Its ok T, no apology needed I just wondered where it was taken from because I've didn't recall it being in the BRS Police report. Thank you Deb for supplying the link

Its been a while since I read the BRS report so I must have either overlooked it or forgot about that comment in it. But now you bring it to light I cant decide if I should read too much into it considering Mike states in the 2007 on screen Documentary Interview that "He had black, jet black hair. Curly."

I'd be more inclined to go by what he said hours after the attack, than what he said after 40 years of influence and rambling about things that didn't quite happen. He seems to be trying to convince himself of what he says in that video. "Richard, yah, yah, it was Richard, that's the name she told me"...and "I laid there for hours"...etc.

But hey, if black curly hair works for you!

Yeah i'd agree with that, or at least the principle of it, that being that the 1969 account is more likely true and/or accurate because its fresh in his mind at that time but didn't Mike also say in the initial report that a second vehicle had chased him and Dee from the moment Dee picked him up all the way to BRS? I mean if I am mistaken and he didn't say this until a later date then I'm sure you'll correct me. Regardless of when he said it, I just cant accept this account as true because it then means he's now asking us to believe that upon Dee picking him up, a second vehicle 'chased' them around and Dee and Mike decided in return that they would go to get food. (Maybe I could believe that if Mike said they decided to go to the drive through because it was populated and safe to call for assistance but he does not. He specifically states that he and Dee decided to head there because Dee said she was hungry.) And then Dee and Mike, being 'chased all over town' by a second vehicle decide that its probably best to now drive to a secluded, unpopulated and dark parking lot and wait like sitting ducks for the second vehicle to pull in and do whatever the driver has in mind to do.
I mean if I'm being chased by an unknown male in a Vehicle I don't recognise and this man and his vehicle chase me 'all over town' I don't know if its just me or not, but I don't think i'd be looking in my mirror at his car chasing me all over town and then think to myself "You know what, I'm quite peckish and could do with a Burger now"

Having met Bryan Hartnell, I'm impressed with him as a serious, truthful man. Still, I question his ability to see glasses and dark-colored, greasy hair through a hood's eye holes. Personally, I'd have been a helluva lot more interested in his pistol and bayonet. Further, if Z had long, greasy hair visible through his hood's eyeholes, how could he see anything?

Dag MacLugh wrote:Having met Bryan Hartnell, I'm impressed with him as a serious, truthful man. Still, I question his ability to see glasses and dark-colored, greasy hair through a hood's eye holes. Personally, I'd have been a helluva lot more interested in his pistol and bayonet. Further, if Z had long, greasy hair visible through his hood's eyeholes, how could he see anything?

I think Bryan meant the eye holes were sort of loose and he could see inside, not necessarily that the hair was hanging out. Also, there appeared to be clip-on glasses attached to real glasses.

morf13 wrote:

Dag MacLugh wrote:Having met Bryan Hartnell, I'm impressed with him as a serious, truthful man. Still, I question his ability to see glasses and dark-colored, greasy hair through a hood's eye holes. Personally, I'd have been a helluva lot more interested in his pistol and bayonet. Further, if Z had long, greasy hair visible through his hood's eyeholes, how could he see anything?

I think Bryan meant the eye holes were sort of loose and he could see inside, not necessarily that the hair was hanging out. Also, there appeared to be clip-on glasses attached to real glasses.

Bryan didn't think he wore glasses and only reported the clips-ons being attached to the hood.

Having met Bryan Hartnell, I'm impressed with him as a serious, truthful man. Still, I question his ability to see glasses and dark-colored, greasy hair through a hood's eye holes.

Interesting that he describes greasy. The girls described the suspicious man to have styled hair, at that time meaning hair grease.

Hair grease makes hair look darker. It can even make blond hair appear brown.

Seems logical to assume Z had dark brown, wavy, greased up hair at LB. Then got a crew cut for PH.

Z probably did have light, reddish brown hair. I think they even found a reddish brown hair under one of his stamps.

Paul_Averly wrote:

Having met Bryan Hartnell, I'm impressed with him as a serious, truthful man. Still, I question his ability to see glasses and dark-colored, greasy hair through a hood's eye holes.

Interesting that he describes greasy. The girls described the suspicious man to have styled hair, at that time meaning hair grease.

Hair grease makes hair look darker. It can even make blond hair appear brown.

Seems logical to assume Z had dark brown, wavy, greased up hair at LB. Then got a crew cut for PH.

Z probably did have light, reddish brown hair. I think they even found a reddish brown hair under one of his stamps.

One of those girls said "black" hair though. Blond can look awful dark, but not black-ish.

It is interesting though they did both describe "combed" hair.


Bryan Hartnell interview with LE, September 28, 1969


http://www.zodiackiller.com/HartnellInterview4.html



One of the three girls at LB:  "Straight, dark hair, neatly combed".
http://www.zodiackiller.com/LBReport10.html

*

I personally think that of all the witnesses, whether they be surviving victims or teens who just happen to live where Zodiac struck one night, only one comes across as being credible beyond any question, and that is Bryan Hartnell. Bryan has even gone out of his way to correct claims that have been made that are not true. It kept being claimed over and over by everyone from the ranger at Lake to (Future) Captain Ken Narlow that after Zodiac had finished binding both Bryan & Cecelia that he told them "You know, I am gonna have to stab you people?" To which it was claimed Bryan replied "Well stab me first cause' I couldn't stand to see the girl hurt." And Zodiac said "I'll do just that" then plunged the blade into his back.

Even though this would make Bryan seem like a courageous young man who simply couldn't stand to see his female companion attacked so asked the masked man to stab/kill him first, Bryan stated that this claim was one that he did not take kindly to and wanted this erroneous claim put right and said that however this claim came about, it is completely untrue and states time and time again that the first time he became aware that the masked man had any intension of stabbing him was seeing a brief flash out the corner of his eye and a split second later felt the knife plunge into his back.

Bryan just seems to me, as a witness, absolutely impeccable. There is no reason I can see to question anything he says regarding what happened at Lake B and/or what he was able to observe. His story has never changed, he's neither added to, nor taken away from, the original account he gave. Again, this is simply just my opinion, but if Bryan Hartnell tell's me as an interested observer that he saw Zodiac's hair through the eye holes because it hung down freely over his forehead, then that's good enough for me to believe that he saw exactly what he said he saw. If I was given the chance to meet any of the witnesses and/or surviving victims to talk and ask them a few questions, then without hesitation I would request to meet with Bryan.