Leaving and coming back 5 minutes later, did Z go home?

[bmichelle]

From my experience living in the area (as a teenager a little more than ten or so years year after the fact) We teenagers chose secluded spots to park -with one small main road to enter and leave from. Very common.We did not want traffic passiing back and forth..My/our choice was the golf course.We did get blasted by the cops spot lights once in awhile but otherwise not much traffic.

I think Z was just trolling.He knew the area and just happened to come upon the teenagers. He probably turned around to think "is this an opportunity I want to act upon now?" He had to decide this and plus get himself mentally prepared. Circled back out, to scope things out before making his decision that he would indeed act out his desire.

As simple as that.

He did not live near the location in my opinion.

I also, have a problem with the (pin flashlight taped to the gun) Those flash lights were not the lights we have today. I did an experiment and and taped my light to my gun. What I learned was that you had to be really up close to even vaguely get the light to work a Z descibe 3/6 radius. Did not work for any amount of distance at all. Definitely not a great hunting tool. At the most it did was allow him to see into the vehicles and offered a little light to "see by" in the dark- if someone were to try and run.

[Norse]

I also, have a problem with the (pin flashlight taped to the gun) Those flash lights were not the lights we have today. I did an experiment and and taped my light to my gun. What I learned was that you had to be really up close to even vaguely get the light to work a Z descibe 3/6 radius. Did not work for any amount of distance at all. Definitely not a great hunting tool. At the most it did was allow him to see into the vehicles and offered a little light to "see by" in the dark- if someone were to try and run.

Yes, I doubt his claim too. That is, I doubt very much this method would have worked as he describes it. He may have read about something like it or seen it in a movie, thinking it would make him look like a pro.

I think it's possible that he actually had a flashlight taped to his gun, though - it's a common technique and while it doesn't work as some sort of laser sight, it's nevertheless practical (frees up one hand, simply).

[traveller1st]

When I read his description of it I think there is an overlap.

One is pointing out that there is a dark spot in the centre when pointed at a wall or ceiling. Ok that establishes a centre and under certain circumstances the bullets would strike exactly in the centre of that dark spot. This implies to me that he tested it and within an acceptable range he managed to get the bullets to hit the centre or as close as. Possibly having to make some adjustments as to the placement of the flashlight.

So that's one aspect and one set of circumstances by which his 'electric gun sight' functioned.

The other is operational variation. He points out that is was dark, surrounded by high hills and trees. I think this helped, well, obviously it would have helped because in regard the power of pen torches, when operating in a very dark environment free from light pollution and no other external lighting, any light would, on first employment, be relatively and proportionately powerful compared to the lack thereof. I think that as long as his victims fell within the light ring he was going to hit them, at some point. This I believe is also supported by his comment "all I had to do was spray them". It speaks of the difference between the testing and the operational phases where former relates to a fixed, flat point in space and at a very minor variable distance of effectiveness resulting in a spot of 3 to 6 inches. In operation though the target is neither fixed nor flat but even at distance you still have an area in which to target or "spray".

So I don't really see a discrepancy in how he claimed it worked. I think he just didn't explicitly point out the 'differences' between testing and operating but it does seem to be reasonably implied. If you'll excuse the pun - he presented it in the best possible light.

[Wier]

Whatever about using some sort of electric gun sight at LHR, he did not use one at BRS, but perhaps there is some connection given what's being suggested in this thread,
We know ( assuming eye witness testimony is correct) that Z sat parked 10ft from the victims at LHR and in that time at least one but probably 2 cars past in the short time.
We also know as soon as J Owen passed, that Z started his attack. Instead of shooting victims in the car ( like BRS) Z took extra time and by definition, extra risk by herding the victims out of the car. I've always been uncomfortable with this...but I wonder if he did this because he did not have a proper light/ enough light.

The car park at BRS is much larger, yet Zodiac appears to have done exactly as he did at LHR. According to Mageau Z parked alongside the car but only 6 to 8 ft away(way too close for comfort) and in the process ensured ( as he did as LHR) that his car was on the inside and shielded from the road. It's for that reason I believe Z was ready to strike then and there.
If he had anything else on his mind he could have driven into to car park, circled until his headlights illuminated Dee's car( ensuring it was a couple) and then driven off to check the coast was clear, if that's what folks believe was the reason for leaving.
Upon return, Zodiac not only positioned his car behind Dee's with headlights on but also felt it necessary to carry a large flash light and this time he wasn't letting the victims out of the car. Mageau himself commented about how dark it was and his inability to make out the car or the shooter.
Zodiac could only check the road in one direction, in an area where the traffic could have come from either...even the witnesses who found the victims arrived there from the opposite direction, having been in down town Vallejo.
Looking at each of the crimes, I just don't see Zodiac being over cautious or hesitant, in fact the opposite. he took great risks and seemed to be relatively comfortable hiding in plain sight so to speak.

[vasa croe]

From my experience living in the area (as a teenager a little more than ten or so years year after the fact) We teenagers chose secluded spots to park -with one small main road to enter and leave from. Very common.We did not want traffic passiing back and forth..My/our choice was the golf course.We did get blasted by the cops spot lights once in awhile but otherwise not much traffic.

I think Z was just trolling.He knew the area and just happened to come upon the teenagers. He probably turned around to think "is this an opportunity I want to act upon now?" He had to decide this and plus get himself mentally prepared. Circled back out, to scope things out before making his decision that he would indeed act out his desire.

As simple as that.

He did not live near the location in my opinion.

I also, have a problem with the (pin flashlight taped to the gun) Those flash lights were not the lights we have today. I did an experiment and and taped my light to my gun. What I learned was that you had to be really up close to even vaguely get the light to work a Z descibe 3/6 radius. Did not work for any amount of distance at all. Definitely not a great hunting tool. At the most it did was allow him to see into the vehicles and offered a little light to "see by" in the dark- if someone were to try and run.

I agree with your assessment of this. I don't think he lived "near" but I do think he was familiar and lived in the area around.

I say this because I had a similar area that I used to hang out at in Atlanta growing up.....we called it "cocaine lane". It was close to the areas that a lot of people lived and was a mile from a major road, but unless you were going there at night to hang out with friends, it was not travelled much.

The light he describes would not have lit up anything from the distance he shot from. I use a surefire or L7 light with my guns and still would not trust them to shoot past 10-15 feet. What he describes as what he used could not possibly have lit up the victims like he stated. Unless truly sighted in after each time at the range, even a laser sight does not hold that kind of accuracy. At the distance he claims to have shot them, he was either lying about the distance or was a very good shot....it is harder to hit a moving target than most think....especially with a pistol. But that is really neither here nor there in this case.

Z was definitely a risk taker, but also calculating. He knew where to strike and seemed to know when. Possibly even had staked the spots out for a while in advance.

Does anyone know if there was a particular spot on this July 4th that was set as a meeting place for most of the locals? Reason I ask is because maybe Z was in the know and there was another "hot spot" for the locals to meet this night and he knew that not many would be in this particular spot and figured he could take the chance that nobody else would pull up at that time....such as a defined time for a fireworks show at another area better to view it and he knew the kids would all be there instead of his kill location?

Similar to how fireworks shows happen today...there are locations that are broadcast for the shows so there are particular places you can park or convene and see the show. Maybe there was one announced and Z assumed that most people would be at that location, but possibly a few would be at this one and took the chance based on the majority being elsewhere? Possibly a newspaper article on it or something?

[morf13]

Whatever about using some sort of electric gun sight at LHR, he did not use one at BRS, but perhaps there is some connection given what's being suggested in this thread,
We know ( assuming eye witness testimony is correct) that Z sat parked 10ft from the victims at LHR and in that time at least one but probably 2 cars past in the short time.
We also know as soon as J Owen passed, that Z started his attack. Instead of shooting victims in the car ( like BRS) Z took extra time and by definition, extra risk by herding the victims out of the car. I've always been uncomfortable with this...but I wonder if he did this because he did not have a proper light/ enough light.

The car park at BRS is much larger, yet Zodiac appears to have done exactly as he did at LHR. According to Mageau Z parked alongside the car but only 6 to 8 ft away(way too close for comfort) and in the process ensured ( as he did as LHR) that his car was on the inside and shielded from the road. It's for that reason I believe Z was ready to strike then and there.
If he had anything else on his mind he could have driven into to car park, circled until his headlights illuminated Dee's car( ensuring it was a couple) and then driven off to check the coast was clear, if that's what folks believe was the reason for leaving.
Upon return, Zodiac not only positioned his car behind Dee's with headlights on but also felt it necessary to carry a large flash light and this time he wasn't letting the victims out of the car. Mageau himself commented about how dark it was and his inability to make out the car or the shooter.
Zodiac could only check the road in one direction, in an area where the traffic could have come from either...even the witnesses who found the victims arrived there from the opposite direction, having been in down town Vallejo.
Looking at each of the crimes, I just don't see Zodiac being over cautious or hesitant, in fact the opposite. he took great risks and seemed to be relatively comfortable hiding in plain sight so to speak.

I've been uncomfortable with this too, as according to Owen, Z started shooting with seconds of him passing by, it sounds awfully risky, which is why I have been suspicious of James Owen

[ophion1031]

Morf, is there a 60's era pic of James Owen anywhere? I have looked in a few threads but have not seen one.

[Scared Kid]

Scared Kid, a question if you would please.....Can you tell me if Columbus Parkway was then as it is now...a dual carriageway, with a mid-road divide between the lanes?
Thanks.

Back then it was nowhere near what it is today.

It was a 2 lane road, one each direction. There was no divider.

If you are headed towards I-80 there was only a dirt parking area on the left side of the road. None of the parking areas you see today were there in the 60's, 70's or early 80's. It was dark and and the street had the trees on both sides. From just after LHR towards the park the road was very curvy, they straightened it out when it went to 4 lanes.

[Scared Kid]

Similar to how fireworks shows happen today...there are locations that are broadcast for the shows so there are particular places you can park or convene and see the show. Maybe there was one announced and Z assumed that most people would be at that location, but possibly a few would be at this one and took the chance based on the majority being elsewhere? Possibly a newspaper article on it or something?

Vasa,

Fireworks shows were held only at one location, the Vallejo waterfront. To watch we all gathered on what is now Mare Island Way. Interesting to note that this is about as far from BRS as you can get.

The fireworks were an annual event back then and would have been announced in the Vallejo Times Herald.

Vallejo was a relatively small town back then. There was only one fireworks show in town.

[Mr lowe]

I reckon he made his decision to kill but realized it was to dark, drove off parked up the ways, taped the torch to the gun, went back and got lucky in his shooting. I say lucky not to be insulting to his victims but to point out how accurate (tight) his shot groupings were.. maybe the forensic investigation was a little flawed. Probably shot from a closer range when the victims were already immobilized through the first shot or fear.