Leaving and coming back 5 minutes later, did Z go home?

[masootz]

i think it's more likely that he was driving around for a minute, scoping out potential witnesses. unlike lhr, brs was done on a warm celebratory (july 4th) night. much much higher chance of folks being out and about. really it was a stupid night to shoot people in a public park. we know that there were at least two or three cars of people in the parking lot in the fifteen minutes before and after the shooting so, again, zodiac seems extremely lucky.

[Wier]

For a long time I had thought similar, however after examining the possible routes and looking at old maps, it's actually surprising how rural an area it was back then.
Mageau stated that Z had already parked alongside them for a minute before taking off! From many areas in Vallejo including areas south of BRS it would have been faster and easier to get to BRS via the I-80 and Columbus from the east if one was intent on going there.
If Zodiac went to check the area was clear, he could only check one route/way..while he's checking that cars could be coming in the opposite direction...he turned south and the next road he would meet would be LHR which was 7 tenths of a mile south also virtually none of the housing estates that are there today were there then.
In any case, if ( and it is an If) there is a possibility that Z returned to some safe haven for a minute, it;s worth consideration and it could be one of the better leads in this case.

[Norse]

i think it's more likely that he was driving around for a minute, scoping out potential witnesses. unlike lhr, brs was done on a warm celebratory (july 4th) night. much much higher chance of folks being out and about. really it was a stupid night to shoot people in a public park. we know that there were at least two or three cars of people in the parking lot in the fifteen minutes before and after the shooting so, again, zodiac seems extremely lucky.

It's downright remarkable how lucky he actually was.

LHR: Seems positively reckless given how many cars flew by - and pulled up at - that spot.

BRS: Same, with the added element of the date in question, where the likelihood of rowdy teens driving around was significantly higher than most other nights of the year. It didn't last long before the "hippie types" came around to discover the victims - not to mention Andy and his girl.

[morf13]

i think it's more likely that he was driving around for a minute, scoping out potential witnesses. unlike lhr, brs was done on a warm celebratory (july 4th) night. much much higher chance of folks being out and about. really it was a stupid night to shoot people in a public park. we know that there were at least two or three cars of people in the parking lot in the fifteen minutes before and after the shooting so, again, zodiac seems extremely lucky.

The time span was more like 5 to 10 minutes, and again, that was a very secluded spot, there would not be much in the way of witnesses.

[morf13]

i think it's more likely that he was driving around for a minute, scoping out potential witnesses. unlike lhr, brs was done on a warm celebratory (july 4th) night. much much higher chance of folks being out and about. really it was a stupid night to shoot people in a public park. we know that there were at least two or three cars of people in the parking lot in the fifteen minutes before and after the shooting so, again, zodiac seems extremely lucky.

It's downright remarkable how lucky he actually was.

LHR: Seems positively reckless given how many cars flew by - and pulled up at - that spot.

BRS: Same, with the added element of the date in question, where the likelihood of rowdy teens driving around was significantly higher than most other nights of the year. It didn't last long before the "hippie types" came around to discover the victims - not to mention Andy and his girl.

And if you believe James Owen, Z started shooting within seconds of him passing by

[vasa croe]

i think it's more likely that he was driving around for a minute, scoping out potential witnesses. unlike lhr, brs was done on a warm celebratory (july 4th) night. much much higher chance of folks being out and about. really it was a stupid night to shoot people in a public park. we know that there were at least two or three cars of people in the parking lot in the fifteen minutes before and after the shooting so, again, zodiac seems extremely lucky.

It's downright remarkable how lucky he actually was.

LHR: Seems positively reckless given how many cars flew by - and pulled up at - that spot.

BRS: Same, with the added element of the date in question, where the likelihood of rowdy teens driving around was significantly higher than most other nights of the year. It didn't last long before the "hippie types" came around to discover the victims - not to mention Andy and his girl.

I'd say it was the perfect night to shoot some people....fireworks going off everywhere for celebration would have made his gunshots blend right in. He just had to make sure that if someone came by that he was not shooting at that moment so they could see a gun. Even the cops would not have thought it was gunfire is my guess....a 9MM would not have been any louder than some fireworks going off around the town.

[traveller1st]

Even the cops would not have thought it was gunfire is my guess....a 9MM would not have been any louder than some fireworks going off around the town.

I always found this to a very interesting summary of accounts of that evening as it pertains to the 'sounds'. It's by M. Butterfield and it deals with the hypothesis that a silencer might have been used. I thought it might be useful in what we imagine regarding volume levels of the shots.

I've quickly grabbed the relevant section but the full article can be found here. http://www.zodiackillerfacts.com/The%20 ... 20Myth.htm

Along with a visual showing where George Bryant was in relation to the shooting.

George Bryant lived with his father, a groundskeeper, in a small house located in Blue Rock Springs Park, not far from the scene of the shooting. On the night of the crime, Bryant was lying in his bed, unable to sleep. According to his statements to police, he "reversed the pillow on his bed and laid on his stomach and looked out the window."


Bryant told police that he "could hear laughing and a few firecrackers but he couldn't see anybody." At approximately midnight, Bryant "heard what appeared to be a gunshot." The police report notes Bryant's comment that the gunshot "was much louder than any of the firecrackers."

A brief pause followed the first sound, and then Bryant stated he "heard what appeared to be another gunshot." After another "short pause," Bryant said he "heard rapid fire of what appeared to be gunshots." He then heard the sound of a car leaving the scene at a high rate of speed.

When compared with the statements given by Mageau, it seems clear that George Bryant heard the gunfire that wounded Mageau and killed Darlene Ferrin. Bryant stated that he heard gunshots at the exact time the shooting occurred. The distance between the scene of the shooting and Bryant's bedroom window is such that he would not have been able to hear the sound of a silencer but could easily have heard the sound of a 9mm pistol firing several times, and distinguish between those sounds and the sounds of the firecrackers he had heard earlier.

Bryant said that he also heard laughter at the same time he heard the firecrackers. In his interview with police, Mageau said that three cars pulled into the parking lot shortly before the shooting occurred. Mageau said he heard "some laughing and carrying on and a few firecrackers were set off" before the three vehicles drove away.

George Bryant said he heard one gunshot, then, after a brief pause, he had heard another. He said this second shot was followed by another pause and then rapid gunfire. Mageau told police that he "heard a muffled sound" and then felt pain. He then "heard some more muffled sounds" and felt more pain. According to Mageau, the suspect then fired at Darlene several times, walked away, returned, and fired several more shots into the vehicle.

Both Bryant and Mageau provided similar accounts: A sound, a pause, a sound, a second pause, and then several more sounds.

[Scared Kid]

Just including this map of Vallejo from 1969.....as you can see BRS was a fairly rural area at the time with little of the present road network or homes built back then.

33-d84f45c729.jpg

Wier, any way to blow that map up to see the street names? Also, which end of BRS did Z pull out of when he left, was it the end closer to LHR(south side), or the end closest to Columbus Pkwy(North side)?

None of those streets on the Google map were there when Z did his thing. It was way rural and dark. There were no street lights and lots of tall eucalyptus trees.

I do not believe there were any houses close enough for him to go to and get back in 5 minutes.

Z did not really "pull out" of either end of the parking lot. The BRS parking lot was just a very wide spot in Columbus Parkway. If you were driving from LHR towards I-80, when you got to BRS the left side of Columbus Parkway was a dirt patch. The right side was BRS parking and the pavement just extended from the road to the edge of the park. No sidewalks, no driveways just a wide spot. This picture is from 1970, perhaps it will give you a better idea.

Note all the Impalas, including a white one! Maybe Z was at BRS when they took this photo!

[Scared Kid]

I had a problem between the chair and keyboard with the photo upload!

[Wier]

Scared Kid, a question if you would please.....Can you tell me if Columbus Parkway was then as it is now...a dual carriageway, with a mid-road divide between the lanes?
Thanks.