What Did Mike M. Really See?

[Bayarea60s]

Many Times I've referred to Mike M. as being a Z eyewitness, which technically he is. Mike had stated that he got his best look at Z, after he was shot for the 2nd time and as Z passed by the rear passenger window. It probably was the only time he could see Z without a flashlight being shined into his eyes. I was looking at Darlene's car, a 1963 Corvair, then I looked up the specs for that car. The car is 51.5" at the top of its roof. If you subtract about 3" from that, this would be where the top of the rear window would be. So thats about 48.5", basically about 4' high. Well if Z was 5' 8" tall, that's 68", Z would tower over the side window by some 20". That would mean really Mike M. never saw Z's face at all, only maybe a silouette of Z's body..

[Tahoe27]

Probably why Mike was never involved with any sort of composite.

Surely a guesstimated height and weight be would tough. We know Mike didn't say he had blue eyes, bushy eyebrows and acne...so I think it's safe to say he was being honest about what he saw.

I think a general build and look would be quite different though. He knew the guy wearing a blue t-shirt and had a heavier (beefy not fat) build. He got a look at the man's hair and also a look at the man's car...with the old plates. He was paying some attention.

Could he identify the guy if he saw him again--then or now? Now that...I don't know.

[snooter]

the composites are trash..MM just does not know...i waffle On DF and any connection she had to Z..yea there is some notes in her diary that seem to point to mr X in some ways I guess I have read over the years..i am pretty much down to a random occurrence with DF not knowing Z barring explicit connection/evidence which I doubt will ever be found..in my judgment KJ and the cops in the stine case are probably best but yes I even question if what the saw was the true Z..

[Bayarea60s]

It's amazing he even survived.....Given the physical and mental trauma he has had to endure, I'm not sure what he accurately recalls. I've heard him waffle totally on the car description, again I'm not blaming MM, in that situation I'm sure the memory does many tricks. I know mine does now and I never went through anything like what MM had to endure.

[zodiphile]

This is probably not accurate on my part and quite possibly a fabrication on RG's part. However, in the YB i believe it says that MM got the best view (and determined Z's height) when Z had gone back to his own car and was doing something (i think possibly reloading or grabbing another magazine) before walking back to DF's car and shooting again. If this is actually true then perhaps thats how MM could estimate Z's height.

[pittsburgh_phil]

It's amazing he even survived.....Given the physical and mental trauma he has had to endure, I'm not sure what he accurately recalls. I've heard him waffle totally on the car description, again I'm not blaming MM, in that situation I'm sure the memory does many tricks. I know mine does now and I never went through anything like what MM had to endure.

The guy seems like he suffered greatly. The years haven't been kind to poor Mike.

[morf13]

the composites are trash...

I wouldn't go that far. I think the composites had to look at least a little like the Guys that were witnessed. I am sure there are some differences, or things that may be off

[Scared Kid]

I think Mike's description of Z should be taken with a huge grain of salt for a couple reasons.

1. It was late at night and BRS was pitch black at night back then. No parking lot lights, no street lights, tall trees. Even in the mid to late 70's when I was in High School it was pitch black out there at night.

2. Z shined a flashlight into the car and presumably into Mike's face. This would tend to hide Z and destroy Mike's ability so see in the night.

3. Mike was in the middle of a hugely traumatic experience between getting shot and seeing Dee get shot.

4. Z left the head lights on in his car so when he walked back to it, Mike would be looking into the headlights. Again, there goes the night vision and here come the little spots you see when blinded by a light.

My point is that the circumstances were such that he had almost no chance of getting a good look at Z's face. Height and build maybe based on an outline when staring into a flashlight or the headlights, but how good would that estimate be?

[capricorn]

ITA and wonder if a 1956 or 1959 black T-Bird with a "continental tire" could possibly have been mistaken for a Corvair?I've googled pictures and imo it could. I have tried answering my own question to myself by trying to compare the specs but find it just gets too technical. TYIA!

My poi told me he drove one of these before getting the 1967 Mustang he drove when I met him in late May or June of 1970. It was teal blue with a black vinyl top. On our second or third date, I remember now looking in the back seat for some reason and seeing some kids' clothes there and thinking to myself OMG this guy is either married or divorced and lied to me about being single and never married. We were on a freeway headed to Santa Monica beach to go bicyle riding. I thought a long while we were driving re. whether or not to ask about these and how to do it. I decided to go ahead because I wanted to find out asap because things were going very well and I had no intentions of dating a married man or a liar!

I said as casually as I could after making some excuse to turn my head again to the back seat something like "oh, I see there is a little boys' (girls'? can't remember exactly) jacket or it could have been a sweatshirt or pants and jacket back there." "Do you have kids?" (I was thinking perhaps he was an unwed father since he told me he was single and never married and had picked me up for our afternoon date after he'd visited his child.) He replied in his monotone voice ever so calmly that he didn't but had been teaching a kid or some kids how to swim and they'd forgotten their belongings. He may have told me the kid(s) belonged to some friends of his and I told him how nice that was of him and asked where it was that he was giving these swimming lessons. I'm pretty sure he told me it was at "Mother's Beach" In Marina Del Rey, CA where he was living with two other men at this time.

[Welsh Chappie]

The one thing Mike did say about Zodiac's description that stands out is not so much what he looked like, but the way in which he moved/walked. It struck me because Don Fouke described the man on Jackson Street as walking in an almost identical manner. Mike said that as Zodiac finished firing his first barrage of bullets at himself and Dee, he walked back to his vehicle to reload and Mike observed him do so saying he walked casually and with his head down. Fouke said the man he saw walked slightly bent forward, head down and walked with a shuffling lope. Mike was led in the back seat of Dee's car at the time he saw him walk back to his own car so wouldn't have seen the bottom half of Zodiac's body to see his legs. But Mike said, as did Don Fouke, that the guy was in no hurry (Fouke), walking casually (Mike) with his head down (Fouke & Mike).