Zodiackillersite.com

Patinky wrote:

Welsh Chappie wrote:Funny enough the ring was something that has always bothered me. Theres been no explination as to why David was holding it between his fingers when he was found, and it seems to have been overlooked by the investigation as unimportant. I think this could be evidence that Zodiac communicated with David and Betty, maybe he used similar tactics at LHR as he did at LB, where he told Bryan 'Ok everyone stay calm, all I want is your money...I am an escaped convict' etc. Maybe David was in a similar predicament to Bryan and had no cash on him, so offered his ring as a substitute.

Another thing thats I have always wondered regarding the LHR attack is, did Zodiac have his vehicle, or was he on foot? Did he know that little lay-by/parking area was a lovers lane hot spot and lay in wait in the bushes behind the metal gate? This theory does have its merits because te approaching police, coming from both directions, do not recall/record seeing any vehicle's passing them as they approached the scene. And I also saw, in a newspaper article in the aftermath of the crime state "A large calibre rifle bullet was found at the scene' and the article went on to describe how the police were of the opinion that the shooter had been hid in the undergroath and fired at the couple first with a high calibre weapon.

BBM. I hadn't read about this or else I've forgotten it. If the shooter was hidden it puts a whole different light on the events and possible suspects. Ms. Ferrin running from the car would fit either case (responsible in vehicle or hidden in undergrowth). Since she was found several yards from the vehicle she had several seconds available to make a judgement, exit the car, then travel that far.

Does anyone know if all of her wounds were at close range? Iirc, the diagram of the site showed some shell casings a good distance from the victims yet some casings were very close to the Ferrin boy.

It wasn't Darlene Ferrin, it was Betty Lou Jensen.

The second highlighted point, I don't know how far exactly Zodiac was when he shot Betty in the back but what we do know is this...

Betty was shot while running away. This mean's that the shooter was shooting at a moving target at distance, at night in a dark lane. The report states that Betty was hit 5 times in the back. Zodiac later got quite upset and angry when police tried to say the area was sufficiently lit for the shooter to take aim and hit Betty. Zodiac wrote and corrected their assumptions by saying "Last Christmass In that epasode the police were wondering as to how I could shoot + hit my victoms in the dark. They did not openly state this, but implied this by saying it was a well lit night + I could see the silowets on the horizon. Bullshit that area is srounded by high hills + trees. What I did was tape a small pencel flash light to the barrel of my gun. If you notice, in the center of the beam of light if you aim it at a wall or celling you will see a black or darck spot in the center of the circle of light about 3 to 6 inches across. When taped to a gun barrel, the bullet will strike exactly in the center of the black dot in the light. All I had to do was spray them as if it was a water hose; there was no need to use the gun sights. I was not happy to see that I did not get front page coverage."

Here's what the police report states.

"By the right front door of the station waggon where the man's head was outlined (in chalk), there was a very large pool of blood. Several small calibre casings were also on the ground in the area".

Now I am aware that this comment of 'in the area', will be taken by some as a general one that is describing a vast area surrounding the car and road, but for me, the fact that the comment about shells being found is made straight after the comment about the position of Davids body suggests that the casings were found right where David's body had lay. That would also seem to make sense because once Zodiac had shot David at point blank range, the reasonable assumption to make is that Betty then instantly ran for her life. Zodiac probably shot her from the same position as he had been standing when he shot David, hence the casings found in the same spot. Also, If Zodiac was chasing Betty when shooting, that would make it twice as difficult to aim and hit the target he's fireing at.

Thanks Welsh Chappie. You now see why I am retired.

So what would be a reasonable distance for him to have shot Ms. Jensen while she was running? The 22 bullet could have traveled a fairly good distance and how far could the light attached to the barrel travel (depending on the quality of the instrument providing the light) ?

Patinky wrote:Thanks Welsh Chappie. You now see why I am retired.

So what would be a reasonable distance for him to have shot Ms. Jensen while she was running? The 22 bullet could have traveled a fairly good distance and how far could the light attached to the barrel travel (depending on the quality of the instrument providing the light) ?

Well, as for what the distance was between Zodiac & Betty when he shot her, the police report states "Approx Ten feet away from the station waggon was the body of a young girl (Betty)." That is obviously where she fell, weather she was Ten feet away from Zodiac when he began shooting at her is open to question (Although it's highly unlikely because Betty was running away at the tme she was shot, so the common accepted version says).
The second question you asked was how far would the light likely travel from it's sorce to the traget it is pointed at? Well, that depends on the type of light and its strength. For example, Laser lights are pin point specs of light thar can be projected hundreds of miles onto a target object. A standard flashlight is not precise as far as the beam of light goes and won't illuminate something 200 yards away in most cases. But, Zodiac does give us a good idea of what the light travel distance and accuracy was on the device he used. He stated that he used a pencil flashlight taped to his gun. This would be far more accurate when fireing at a target, and the distance a thin beam of light travels, such as a pencil light beam, is greater than a wider beam. Zodiac himself said " What I did was tape a small pencel flash light to the barrel of my gun. If you notice, in the center of the beam of light if you aim it at a wall or celling you will see a black or darck spot in the center of the circle of light about 3 to 6 inches across. When taped to a gun barrel, the bullet will strike exactly in the center of the black dot in the light."

That's about all I think we can say for certain.

Welsh Chappie wrote:Well, as for what the distance was between Zodiac & Betty when he shot her, the police report states "Approx Ten feet away from the station waggon was the body of a young girl (Betty)." That is obviously where she fell, weather she was Ten feet away from Zodiac when he began shooting at her is open to question (Although it's highly unlikely because Betty was running away at the tme she was shot, so the common accepted version says).

I thought the 10 ft. was accurate too thanks to lousy police reports, but it appears she was further than that. I think it was actually like 28' or so.

Maybe the 10' came about because that is where they think she was first shot? One bullet did go through her.

I just think, in regards to the Lake Herman Murders, that it's assumed by all that Zodiac pulled up in his car, commited his crime, and drove away. The question's that arise from this assumption are these...

1. Police coming from both directions on Lake Herman Rd report passing no vehicles on route to the crime scene. Why?
2. Pierre Bidou said that there is one part of Lake Herman Road that the police used as a short cut, and that he thinks this would likely be where they missed Zodiac's car as he left the scene. Again, if this is true, this would have to be one massive slice of luck, that Zodiac was passing the very stretch of road at the same time that Pierre was using the short cut.
3. Initial reports stated that police believed that the shooter had been hid in the bushes and undergroath behind the gate, waiting for a couple to pull into the well known lovers lane spot.

Lake Herman Road is not the type of place one would choose at a homicide location in my opinion, due to its lack of escape options. If one commits a crime on this road and are using a vehicle and the police are notified quickly, then you are trapped because the road winds for miles both ways, and if police come from the east and west then you are left with nowhere to escape, and it's just a matter of time before they box you in.

I have long believed now that, at LHR, Zodiac was on foot.

Welsh Chappie wrote:I have long believed now that, at LHR, Zodiac was on foot.

I commend you in this decision!

How's the possibility (which I have also suggested elsewhere, to overwhelming indifference and a palpable lack of excitement) that Betty Lou was nicely backlit by a car travelling toward her on LHR, when she was shot.
Hmmm?
That would have made her a nice clear target - and it would also have given her a reason to be running away from her assailant.
Not running aimlessly, but toward potential help and assistance.
Maybe it was Mrs Whats-her-name, coming up the road, that she ran toward - the lady who then went off at a rate of knots to raise the alar-um. Eh?
That would be ironic.

(And I have to say the "electric gunsight" is a lot of old poop, of course, while I'm here. Straight from a comic. Ridiculous, It's phooooooooey.)

Couple of things:-

1. Zodiac did not run after Betty Lou as evidenced by the position of the shell casings.
2. Report also states that a trail of blood was found from the vicinity of the car to where her body lay 28ft away. That means she wasn't that far when first hit and the distance is probably down to her momentum..staggering forward and eventually falling.

3. The length of LHR from Vallejo to the eastern turnout is just five miles. Stella Borges didn't see the bodies until a few minutes after the murder and had to cover the same distance Z would have had to. That is there was plenty of time for him to get clear. It does suggest though that Z did not head west to Vallejo after the murders.
4. A quarter of a mile east of the pump station is Reservoir Road, linking LHR to the Industrial estate in Benicia....there is a strong possibility that Z used this.

Welsh Chappie wrote: 3. Initial reports stated that police believed that the shooter had been hid in the bushes and undergroath behind the gate, waiting for a couple to pull into the well known lovers lane spot.

Where did you see these reports?

We know a print was found off the road, but if it was too cold for any cars to leave tire tracks, I think the same might be said for a shoe print found.

I too think Zodiac could have very well been on foot. I don't think he would have been parked on the other side of David's Rambler, then, driven around both bodies with no tire tracks in blood...

Ah! A couple of things to reply to.

1) Who said Zodiac chased her? Not me - I said she ran away from him, quite possibly toward an approaching car. It's actually interesting that he DIDN'T chase her, no? He must have had a clear view and some confidence in his accuracy, eh? (Which wasn't fabulous, but neither was it poor. IMO).
2) Yes, she left "a trail in blood", but that's some "momentum". Nope, she was a young woman being shot with a relatively small-calibre gun who was trying to get away and enjoying some adrenaline-fuelled assistance, trying to do so, I suspect. Having seen her boyfriend shot in the head seconds earlier may have helped. Her assailant he had to keep shooting her, I think, (the bastard), since she wasn't stopping.
3) We have no idea how many minutes after the murder Stella Borges saw the murders. If the assailant was on foot, then it could indeed have been a matter of seconds. That's the point of the "he wasn't driving a car" perspective. He ducked back behind the Rambler - eh voila.
4) Yes, one of the roads he may have used, possibly. But not if he wasn't driving. Maybe he was driving. But that invisible car's a clew, I think. * shrug *

I've not read a report which states someone was hiding in the bushes, only the heel-print one, and since there's no way to date that, it's unhelpful.
The "lying-in-wait" idea's possible. But then, there are many explanations we might fit around LHR, are there not?