Zodiackillersite.com

Welsh Chappie wrote:

StitchMallone wrote:

Welsh Chappie wrote:Well there was an eight year old witness at the Presidio Heights attack who not only saw a suspect, but named him as someone he thought he recognized. This info has never been released.

But he is at least mentioned in reports. These kids are not mentioned anywhere I know of on the LHR reports. This is the first I heard of them reading Lafferty's book.

Thats why I would doubt the truth behind the claim. Its coming from a 2nd hand sorce almost half a century after the event. No report mentions such witnesses in official documentation.

So is Lafferty exaggerating or just being confused since of all that time ? Both are possible but what if he is right on this. I would like to know who the kids are.

Oh by the way I recommend the book and only been 50 some pages in it and is like 450 pages. I would pay $20 bucks for it cause it is very interesting and worth it but wouldn't pay $50 for any book.

StitchMallone wrote:Oh by the way I recommend the book and only been 50 some pages in it and is like 450 pages. I would pay $20 bucks for it cause it is very interesting and worth it but wouldn't pay $50 for any book.

I've just finished reading Michael Kellehers collaboration with David Van Nuys, 'This is The Zodiac Speaking'. Well written book that the author seems to go out of his way to avoid naming anyone as their 'most likely'. In fact, the book makes a passing reference to Arthur Allen but thats it as far as the suspects go. I bought the book off Amazon for around £17, which translates about 32 U.S $. But I agree that $50 for a book (£25) is rather expensive. But then again if you know its something that you will really enjoy reading (as I did when trying to find and read Kellehers book) it's worth it paying $100 if thats what the asking price was I suppose.
I don't agree with certain assumptions made by Van Nuys in his analysis but I can see why he has made them.

I must be honest though regarding L.L book (Think is titled 'Badge of Silence isn't it?), I really know very little about the author or the basics of the claims he makes. Well, other than he claims to have had an encounter back in the 60's with a man he now says is Zodiac. I have no idea what, if any, evidence he has, or claims to have, to support his books claims. But, I make it a rule of mine to consider evryones opinions and claims because the one you may dismiss out of hand could just be the one thats closest to the truth. I am fully aware that the certainty I have, the absolute belief I have in my conviction that Kane was and is Zodiac, I am fully aware that other people feel exactly the same about their own suspect. It seems there are those that are unable to find belief and conviction while retaining the ability to hear other peoples opinions. This site, thankfully, isn't one of them in which I have encountered people such as that. But to go bk to LL's Book finally...

Am I correct in saying that L.L alleges a conspiracy within Law Enforcement to essentially pervert the course of justice? Immediately I am asking Didn't L.L wait untill he had retired to come foreward with this info that, I can only assume, he had long ago and therefore is himself part of the conspiracy of silence? Lol. Or am I mistaken?

WC I always try to keep a open mind and still do so and think most here do. Yep WC think most here think on the same lines and why this site differs from the rest and is special. Yes you almost have it right, LL book is called The Silent Badge. His suspect was one of the top ones back in the day and Graysmith even dedicated a whole chapter to him as a top Zodiac suspect in his Yellow Book.

Graysmith referred to him as a synonym Andrew Todd Walker and Lafferty refers to his last name synonym Tucker as well.. He has passed now and his real name is William Grant. Lafferty was maybe the first one to investigate him and most of what Graysmith wrote was LL's police work on Grant.

Grant is a interesting suspect and was known to stalk women and may even stalked Ferrin. Not saying he is Zodiac but he may have played a rule in the whole case even though he wasn't Z!

Back on topic would like to hear anything about these kids Lundblad was protecting.

The only official person to have claimed to have witnessed a second vehicle in the pull in section of road and parked fairly close to David's Rambler was the witness James Owen. I mean when you think about it logically, why would young children be out on Lake Herman Road between 11 - 11:30pm? What's out there for them to do? Did they walk there? What position or vantage point did they have when the crimes is said to have occured? I cant see it being true at all, unless they have good reason to conceal the fact for some reason. I mean I don't know what they would likely have seen and witnessed anyway because according to Owens when he drove by the trun in and vehicles there were no signs of activity and no people anywhere to be seen. So Dave's and 'Zodiac' vehicles are there, but the murderer and his victims are conspicious in their absense. Owen's statements about what he witnessed that evening don't tally either. First he says Zodiac (or the 2nd vehicle that he is adamant was there when he passed) parked 10 ft away from David's rambler. A few days later in a second statement, this distance had now become 4 ft. Anyway, the fact that no official agency has ever willing made reference to these alleged witnesses, nor has anything been leaked about them, coupled with the earlier question of Why would they be out on LHR in the first place at almost midnight, I am highly skeptical about the existance of any such witnesses. But, ifyou told me 10 years ago that Zodiac had not last been spotted on Maple heading into the Presidio but, in fact, was last seen heading merrily down someones pathway toward their front door I would have probably be just a skeptical as I am regarding this claim lol.

But Stitch I will be honest, I know next to nothing about L.L's claims in any detail at all, but I don't need to in order to see that I think there could be a case made for a deliberate and premeditated cover up attempt and I realize that saying that is going to be controversial in many people's eyes, but this case I could point to so many outragous and redicilous situations/evidence that can no longer fly under the simple flag of 'police incompitance'.

Napa Sheriff's Dave Collins was asked why he hadn't reported the fact that before Cecelia Shepard Passed away that she had told him she saw the attackers face before he had actually put the hood over it, and had given Collins a description? Collins replied (while laughing at the same time as if he himself was aware just how stupid and non believable this is going to be to the veiwers 'You know, I didn't think it was important at the time'. How can whatthe attacker looked like facially be of no importance when looking for him and attempting to apprehend him? That for me is just so not right that it just doesnt appeal to me as a bit of incompitance on the part of Collins, I mean incompitance is forgetting to read an arrested suspect his rights, or losing a piece of evidence, but he himself says it wasn't incompitance in that he just forgot to report it, he states he hadn't forgot her description, he just simply thought it wasn't of importance! B.S that has always seemed like to me. Thats like saying a locksmith one day decided that Keys were not important to him and his trade. It simply doesn't seem that you could do it!
Then we have Officer Fouke who spoke to a man, then didn't speak to a man. Then it's claimed someone somewhere in some capicity had decided that the suspect in Stine's attack was A Black Male. And it's never been discovered to this day who this mysterious dispatcher was and why she made this fatal errror is er description, nor has any official agency seemed even slightly interested in finding her and getting an answer. Thats awfully convenient isn't it. I mean two officers have just failed to detain and arrest the most wanted man in California but..... Fear not, it was some dispatchers fault for giving the B.O.T.L for a BMA (Blk Mle Adt). And what ABout Fouke 1969 report stating "Suspect last seen heading North on Maple St." and his now change of story that, well actually, he was actually rushing off down someones driveway the last time we were able to see him. This was after this man had come stumbling and limping and shuffling down the sidewalk, spotted us, instantly put his head down, and turned and went off toward a house which would mean he'd avoid having us pull up close to him, but this isn't suspicious behavior and anyway, this was A White male, so that doesn't count!

Now I know a lot of people will take issue with that assessment but if the above did come about as a result of simple incompitance then I wouldn't want to be murdered in S.F back then because you'd have police who don't want a description of the suspect: Not important information or intelligence that will help catch the man. After they refuse to report the description of a murder suspect, they then move on to no caring or bothered about the suspects possible address or where he lives. If the see him put his head down, turn and make his way off the street side walk and basically do his best to make it obvious to any police that he is very nervous and is now stumbling and shuffling his way off down a driveway. I mean if this all is a case of simply error and bad police work then Zodiac's claim of 'Police shall never catch me as I have been too clever for them' is over-ruled instantly lol. You don't need to be clever when the people tasked with catching you don't care what you look like or where you may live or currently be at one specific time on Oct 11, 69. If this is all one astronomical incompitant act after another after another, then I would think that Zodiac could have walked down Jackson St holding a sign aloft above his head "This is the Zodiac walking" and his home would need to have a 50 ft sign in the yard "The Zodiac serial Killer lives here" with arrow pointing at house. Even then, if we are to believe police really are unable to peform their basic and most crucial tasks, they would probably arrest the man for impersonating a wanted criminal and lock him up for wasting police time.

I know this type of suggestion is likely to cause many to leap to the defense of SFPD, Napa Sheriff's etc and I respect that, but the fact remains, the are either the most incompatent bunch of officers & detectives ever serving the community, or they were complaciant in the deliberate witholding of the info they had been made aware of because it wasn't something that would be be in their interest to disclose?

Welsh I'm thinking the kids was actually teenagers and in Graysmith YB he said that was a popular teenage hang out. I think Lunblad just referred to them as kids since he was older.

Welsh Chappie wrote:But Stitch I will be honest, I know next to nothing about L.L's claims in any detail at all, but I don't need to in order to see that I think there could be a case made for a deliberate and premeditated cover up attempt and I realize that saying that is going to be controversial in many people's eyes, but this case I could point to so many outragous and redicilous situations/evidence that can no longer fly under the simple flag of 'police incompitance'.

Napa Sheriff's Dave Collins was asked why he hadn't reported the fact that before Cecelia Shepard Passed away that she had told him she saw the attackers face before he had actually put the hood over it, and had given Collins a description? Collins replied (while laughing at the same time as if he himself was aware just how stupid and non believable this is going to be to the veiwers 'You know, I didn't think it was important at the time'. How can whatthe attacker looked like facially be of no importance when looking for him and attempting to apprehend him? That for me is just so not right that it just doesnt appeal to me as a bit of incompitance on the part of Collins, I mean incompitance is forgetting to read an arrested suspect his rights, or losing a piece of evidence, but he himself says it wasn't incompitance in that he just forgot to report it, he states he hadn't forgot her description, he just simply thought it wasn't of importance! B.S that has always seemed like to me. Thats like saying a locksmith one day decided that Keys were not important to him and his trade. It simply doesn't seem that you could do it!
Then we have Officer Fouke who spoke to a man, then didn't speak to a man. Then it's claimed someone somewhere in some capicity had decided that the suspect in Stine's attack was A Black Male. And it's never been discovered to this day who this mysterious dispatcher was and why she made this fatal errror is er description, nor has any official agency seemed even slightly interested in finding her and getting an answer. Thats awfully convenient isn't it. I mean two officers have just failed to detain and arrest the most wanted man in California but..... Fear not, it was some dispatchers fault for giving the B.O.T.L for a BMA (Blk Mle Adt). And what ABout Fouke 1969 report stating "Suspect last seen heading North on Maple St." and his now change of story that, well actually, he was actually rushing off down someones driveway the last time we were able to see him. This was after this man had come stumbling and limping and shuffling down the sidewalk, spotted us, instantly put his head down, and turned and went off toward a house which would mean he'd avoid having us pull up close to him, but this isn't suspicious behavior and anyway, this was A White male, so that doesn't count!

Now I know a lot of people will take issue with that assessment but if the above did come about as a result of simple incompitance then I wouldn't want to be murdered in S.F back then because you'd have police who don't want a description of the suspect: Not important information or intelligence that will help catch the man. After they refuse to report the description of a murder suspect, they then move on to no caring or bothered about the suspects possible address or where he lives. If the see him put his head down, turn and make his way off the street side walk and basically do his best to make it obvious to any police that he is very nervous and is now stumbling and shuffling his way off down a driveway. I mean if this all is a case of simply error and bad police work then Zodiac's claim of 'Police shall never catch me as I have been too clever for them' is over-ruled instantly lol. You don't need to be clever when the people tasked with catching you don't care what you look like or where you may live or currently be at one specific time on Oct 11, 69. If this is all one astronomical incompitant act after another after another, then I would think that Zodiac could have walked down Jackson St holding a sign aloft above his head "This is the Zodiac walking" and his home would need to have a 50 ft sign in the yard "The Zodiac serial Killer lives here" with arrow pointing at house. Even then, if we are to believe police really are unable to peform their basic and most crucial tasks, they would probably arrest the man for impersonating a wanted criminal and lock him up for wasting police time.

I know this type of suggestion is likely to cause many to leap to the defense of SFPD, Napa Sheriff's etc and I respect that, but the fact remains, the are either the most incompatent bunch of officers & detectives ever serving the community, or they were complaciant in the deliberate witholding of the info they had been made aware of because it wasn't something that would be be in their interest to disclose?

I agree with a lot of that!

Stitch Mallone wrote:
"Been reading Lafferty's book today and no didn't pay the $50 bucks and got it at the local library today. Anyhow he states that the LHR murder was actually Benicia Jurisdiction and not Solano County."

Who is the "he?" Lafferty?

That part of LHR was not incorporated into Benicia at the time, if it is today. It was part of the SCSD jurisdiction, which would make it Solano County's case.