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StitchMallone wrote:I believe far as the YB says is that Zodiac fired a shot through the rear window. Now just speculation on my part but that may have made Betty Lou panic and leave the car. Zodiac see's her exiting and heads towards the passenger side. David decides to follow her through the passenger side where Zodiac meets him there and shoots him point blank. Then after that he fires at Betty Lou as she is running away. As for why they left the car in the first place well people sometimes don't act rational when being fired upon or hearing bullets fired.

I think stitches comment above is spot on.

Soze

Soze wrote:

StitchMallone wrote:I believe far as the YB says is that Zodiac fired a shot through the rear window. Now just speculation on my part but that may have made Betty Lou panic and leave the car. Zodiac see's her exiting and heads towards the passenger side. David decides to follow her through the passenger side where Zodiac meets him there and shoots him point blank. Then after that he fires at Betty Lou as she is running away. As for why they left the car in the first place well people sometimes don't act rational when being fired upon or hearing bullets fired.

I think stitches comment above is spot on.

Soze

What's interesting is the bullet was fired into the rear passenger side window so you think they would have exited the driver's side.

And David was shot BEHIND the left ear, so it would seem his shooter told him to face the car...and he did fall backwards.

Soze wrote:

StitchMallone wrote:I believe far as the YB says is that Zodiac fired a shot through the rear window. Now just speculation on my part but that may have made Betty Lou panic and leave the car. Zodiac see's her exiting and heads towards the passenger side. David decides to follow her through the passenger side where Zodiac meets him there and shoots him point blank. Then after that he fires at Betty Lou as she is running away. As for why they left the car in the first place well people sometimes don't act rational when being fired upon or hearing bullets fired.

I think stitches comment above is spot on.

Soze

Sound like one of the many plausible scenarios that would fit, but for one little thing. On one of the bullet holes on Betty's top police found a tiny gun power burn. That led some at the time to speculate that Betty was within arms length of Zodiac when he fired the first shot.

Welsh Chappie wrote:
Sound like one of the many plausible scenarios that would fit, but for one little thing. On one of the bullet holes on Betty's top police found a tiny gun power burn. That led some at the time to speculate that Betty was within arms length of Zodiac when he fired the first shot.

Perhaps. But would it be entirely illogical that zodiac noticed her still alive, after having killed Faraday and, finished her off? He thought he had done in ferrin and mageau until mageau yelled out, then, he went back and shot them both again.

Soze

Betty apparently had a bit of adreniline on her side...for a moment anyway. She was first shot at closer range. One bullet went through her.

Speaking of the crime scene, not the crime itself, the area might have been unincorpoated, but the name was Bahia, which existed in the Southern Pacific Timetables since the early 1900's.
Bahia is not a city, town, or village, and is past Benecia.

As you face the hills, across from the crime scene, on the other side are several manufacturing plants; I used to go over there on Sundays to "turn the coke" in railroad terms. Even got to operate the locomotive!

LHR still remains fairly deserted - was an ideal spot for the killer to act. Even 40 years later,
no development in that area and it appears much the same as it did in 1968-69. That is one of the few places that can make that claim.

Regarding Souze's remark, a powder burn indicates close range - perhaps the first shot was enough to "slow her down" to where the killer could shoot Faraday and then finish Betty Lou off.

Powder burns are good pieces of evidence the shot was at very close range, so that scenerio
is plausible. There is no way of knowing if the killer was in the military or a merchant seaman.
An SSN would help - we don't even know the real name!

smithy wrote:How come he let them out of the car at all?

He didn't, Zodiac took one shot into the car, David immediately exited, struggled a bit with the Zodiac and then taking a bullet to the head.
Betty Lou, hoping David would overcome the Zodiac waited in the car until David was shot. She got out. Tried to make her way passed the Zodiac taking one bullit at close range, but being a .22 it didn't take her down. Zodiac continued shooting until Betty Lou fell. Betty Lou was still alive when Zodiac drove around her. Betty Lou then roles to her side toward the road as she watches the Zodiac drive away and in hope that someone will notice her, which they do, but the witness drives away taking Betty Lou's last hope of survival with them.

That's how it happened......I think.

This crime scene was so poorly handled.

For instance, one report had James Owen heading home from work, while another had him enroute to work. One report had him leaving his home at 10:55 pm, while another had him leaving at 11:00 pm (he checked his cuckoo clock)...also they noted that his clock was 5 minutes fast. So, if that's the case, and we go with his report that he left home at 10:55 (and his clock is 5 minutes fast), that would mean he actually left at 10:50 pm. It takes 19 minutes to drive from his house to the crime scene...which would NOW put him at the scene at around the 11:09 time frame, approximately 3 to 5 minutes after Gasser had passed the scene, and plenty of time to do the killing before Stella Borges comes along and finds the victims on the ground at approximately 11:15 pm.

So due to time discrepancies from 3 different witnesses, it looks to me like the Yours probably went by the scene heading back towards Benicia at 11:00 pm, Gasser around 5 minutes later at 11:05 pm....and then Owen at 11:09 pm.

I find it odd that the Yours and Gasser saw no other vehicles at the scene other than Faradays car...and Owen is the only one that places a car there as he "supposedly" passes by, and as Morf has pointed out, a very "generic" description at that.

The only person that says a car passed him going in the opposite direction (towards Vallejo) is also Owen. Wouldn't the Yours or Gasser have also seen this car further up the road on their way towards Benicia?

LE takes Owens word for it that his co-worker decided not to drive thru Lake Herman Rd that night on his way to work.

Another oddity I find is that he "supposedly" heard a gunshot after he had traveled 1/4 mile or so away. That sounds odd to me for several reasons. 1) It's 22 degrees out, so the probability is very high that he had his windows up due to it being that cold out. 2) He had his radio on low..but I'm assuming loud enough that you could hear the music or whatever was being broadcast without having to strain to hear it. 3) Older vehicles weren't as insulated as they are today, so road noise would have also been a factor, as well as the sound of your engine. 4) .22 caliber weapons typically aren't that loud. That just sounds fishy to me.

And the other point that's always puzzled me, and was brought up as well earlier. Betty Lou is running for her life towards the road. Forward momentum from running or even a very fast walk, plus the fact that you are being shot from behind...you'd expect her to fall forward with her head towards the road, not with her head facing back towards the vehicle. Falling forward would also account for the blood on her face (she likely bloodied her nose from the fall forward).

From the reports I've read, (and in my opinion, are a complete disaster of LE reports), Owen is your likely suspect in that case. He's the one with so many conflicts and holes in his story.

smithy wrote:How come he let them out of the car at all?

He's using a .22 caliber pistol. Great for hunting small game...not so great for shooting thru glass and killing people.

It took 5 shots to the back with nothing impeding the bullets to bring Betty Lou down...and 1 shot at point blank range to the head to bring David down.

In other words, shooting thru a window with that small caliber of a weapon, and really inflicting damage to the point of death is very very difficult to do, whereas if you have them out of the car, with nothing in between, the likelihood of a kill is much more realistic.

xEnigm4x ,

Again, welcome to the board. 1st, I DO agree with your conclusion that Owen is a logical suspect in this case. You mentioned that the reports state that Owen was both coming & going to work. That was always confusing to everybody and it wasn't until about 4 years ago or so when I started looking at all the people on Lake Herman Rd that night under a magnifying glass, and realized, that Owen was giving his statement to police at 8:15 am on his way home FROM work, and that he had witnessed the crime scene, the night before on his way TO work. Up until then, things were confusing thanks to the way the report was badly written, but none of the reports mentions Owen driving hom from work when he seen the 2nd car,it was pure confusion. It was so confusing that I had to correct Author, Robert Graysmith, who wrote in his book ZOdiac, that Owen was on his way home from Humble Oil. It was easy to understand why he would make that mistake based on the confusing way in which the report was written.