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Re: Crime Scene Stills - KRON (SFBA TV Archives)
Posted:
Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:50 pmby Tahoe27
mike_r wrote:Hi-
Well, I am sure there were many tire tracks in that turnout. But IF the one in question was from the killer's car, maybe the car had driven up far enough forward (i.e., east) so as to have passed the point where David would eventually fall. Therefore, if the rear of the car was forward of that point David could have fallen onto the track and not hit the car at all. I don't know squat about tires but if it was a common tire then collecting it would have been an academic exercise, anyway. Neither my friend Jim Dean (retired VPD who did crime lab stuff) nor I believes that bit about the ground being "frozen solid." I think they trampled the scene so badly that they could not recover any footprints if there were any. Instead of admitting that, it was the ground's fault. Wayne Waterman was of this opinion in 2001 or so. He was very critical of the on scene investigation being done by Benicia. It was 22 degrees at night but not during the day. So I believe it was possible for tracks to have been left in what looked like ground that was a bit water soaked/muddy.
Mike
But would the car have had room to move forward (toward the gate/fence) without disturbing any blood trail and/or Betty Lou?
The track looks looks awfully fresh in that mud. I too doubt the ground was frozen. I see why the gravel area wouldn't have any results though.
Re: Crime Scene Stills - KRON (SFBA TV Archives)
Posted:
Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:43 pmby Bayarea60s
Mike R.
That's a real possibility, if not probability. they get on the scene, they have to investigate to some degree, means feet everywhere. I've heard the RO's state that the ground was frozen solid, and my thought went to wouldn't that leave better tire tracks?
Re: Crime Scene Stills - KRON (SFBA TV Archives)
Posted:
Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:15 amby Bayarea60s
Must be a good explanation for the tire track. I'm thinking the cops knew the origin of it and that's why it wasn't casted. Almost looks like the track was made the following day after the ice? would have melted into the dirt, 20 degrees would definitely create frost making the low parts of the ground wet. I don't think that wetness comes from David at all. That car we see the next day in the turnout could very well have created that track.
Re: Crime Scene Stills - KRON (SFBA TV Archives)
Posted:
Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:10 amby Tahoe27
There are no marks through the blood though. I don't think any investigator would have driven that close. I don't think the wetness comes from David either, Bay.
The tire track could have simply been from anyone there prior to David (or as I mentioned, even the Rambler itself). I just thought the angle of it would have placed it parallel to David's car. And, it sure seemed awfully fresh..which shows the benefit of multiple angled photographs because you can't tell that in this one--although we do see the wetness (of at least the next day) in a different track above.
Re: Crime Scene Stills - KRON (SFBA TV Archives)
Posted:
Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:01 pmby Bayarea60s
You can sure see how much traffic of large trucks had gone through that area. that spot is where trucks would go through if turning right onto LHR. There was some heavy work being done up in that area at the time. If you follow that one car tread through the blood area, I think I do see tread and a tire impression going through the blood area, and coming out the other side, its not as present as where the water stored up in the rutted area, but even in that area you can see where tread is and then nothing. We wouldn't even see that tread if the tire hadn't gone through that area when it was muddy, like the following morning. I think that's why the tire track is so pronounced in the wettest area. That car in the pic looks like a prime suspect for leaving the track to me.
Re: Crime Scene Stills - KRON (SFBA TV Archives)
Posted:
Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:20 pmby Tahoe27
I highly doubt though, the car in the picture would have driven right smack through the blood where David had been killed. That track had to have been left before he was killed. It continues on (no matter which way it came in or out) in the Vallejo direction.
Re: Crime Scene Stills - KRON (SFBA TV Archives)
Posted:
Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:49 amby Bayarea60s
Wouldn't the car then drive straight into the border fence that separates the turnout from the adjacent property? It's traveling parallel to David's car. I just think the ridges from the tracks are from a car traveling through wet muddy ground. I just can't buy that the Benecia Police would ignore such a potential clue. they already by the time this pic is shot had Owens come by and say he saw David's car and he believed another car parked right in the area where those tracks are.... Hey anything is possible in this case that's for sure.....
Re: Crime Scene Stills - KRON (SFBA TV Archives)
Posted:
Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:14 pmby Tahoe27
All I am saying is that it looks like fresh tracks which must have been there before David was killed.
Re: Crime Scene Stills - KRON (SFBA TV Archives)
Posted:
Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:21 amby Bayarea60s
I think it's a very fresh track, once the ground was hit by the sun, like morning dew. I don't think you would get that track when the ground is at 20 degrees. To me it shows a car driving into the area when that ground is wet, muddy. That's why it's so pronounced when all the other tracks around it aren't. It's real fresh, not from the night before. And the fact that BPD didn't take a cast of it, even after Owens tells them what he believes he saw. I think BPD had to know the origin of what vehicle made that track, and discounted it. Even without Owens for BPD to miss that, another vehicle's treads right in front of them. Yikes....
Re: Crime Scene Stills - KRON (SFBA TV Archives)
Posted:
Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:51 amby Tahoe27
How do you explain no trail through the blood when it is that close? Do you think someone would have driven through the puddle of blood if it were a site being investigated?