Faraday found inside the car.

[UKSpycatcher]

Remember seeing a post on this site with someone mentioning David Faraday being found inside the car, but couldn't find it, but here is the answer. You can move this to the appropriate thread if necessary.
I noticed a discrepancy at LHR. Pierre Bidou in this video describes at 11;17. "The young man was still in the car" and at 11;45 he says "And you see the male in the car still breathing" , plus in the article below states " “It was obvious she was trying to run,” Bidou said of the girl, who had five entry wounds in a tight grouping to her right upper back. Inside the car, the officers found a boy in the passenger’s seat who appeared as if “he was trying to get out” of the car. Bidou remembers seeing the shattered glass of the car window, pierced by a bullet. More poignantly, he also remembers that the boy was still breathing". Two references to finding Faraday in the car, not on the ground, strange.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFp9s3c ... 1e69D1nq3k
https://beniciaherald.wordpress.com/the-zodiac-case/

Furthermore just read an article with Pierre Bidou stating "Bidou and his partner had served a warrant on a Lake Herman Road cabin Dec. 20, 1968, and were on their way to deposit some marijuana in the police department’s evidence locker when they were dispatched back to Lake Herman Road.
Initially, they were told a woman was lying outside a car; they thought they were being sent to a crash. Police at first speculated it might have been a crank call, but the officers headed back north.
But when they arrived, Bidou realized it was no crank call and no car accident. Instead, it was a sinister crime scene".
If they thought it may have been a crank call it couldn't have come through official lines, it must have been somebody else ie: a member of the public, but it wasn't Stella Borges, the only person supposedly who saw the bodies and she raced off to Benicia and flagged down Officer Daniel Pitta, so who was it. Was this Zodiac or is that a stretch. In the murder of Laotian couple Koy Ien Saechao (48) and Choy Fow Salee (40) on April 22nd 1986 a possible Zodiac letter arrived 2 weeks later and there were many things in the letter that tied with these murders, on this occasion a mystery hitchhiker flagged down a policeman and sent him towards what was he believed to be a car accident only to discover the murders. It's very weak to try and connect the two, but who had sent the call at LHR to give officers the impression it was just a crash. Is this the early untaunting work of the killer, probably not but curious all the same. Here is the article.
http://beniciaheraldonline.com/citizens ... he-zodiac/

[zodiphile]

Ya, i wondered the same things when i saw those videos. However, the police report clearly states that there was a chalk outline of the male by the front passenger door. I'm pretty sure there are pictures of the car where this outline is visible. One could question if David was in the car when police first arrived and somehow fell/slumped over and out of the car. However, he was shot in the left ear/head. It's practically impossible for him to be shot where he was shot while still in the car. Unless Zodiac went thru the drivers door to herd them out of the passengers door. If that were the case then he would've moved the body so he could run after Betty or else go all the way around the car. So, i guess the detectives just had foggy memories in the interviews.

[UKSpycatcher]

If David Faraday had looked for ID not unlike Mageau and rolled down the window, a shot to his left ear would not be unusual, but for that to have happened there would have been blood in the car (no close ups like Presidio Heights), the window down and first responders to have dragged him around the car to the opposite side. It does seem strange though two slip ups in one video.

[morf13]

I know Les Lunblad was of the opinion that they were both ordered out of the car.

[UKSpycatcher]

Yes I always thought that Morf, but there was one shell casing found inside the car and of course had Zodiac been standing between the cars firing it is not implausible a casing ejected into the open passenger door. It just surprised me that the fatal shot to Faraday was actually beneath his left ear exterior, an unusually close position to adopt when you have both victims at your mercy. However had Zodiac approached the male threat first at the driver side window asking for ID Faraday could plausibly reach forward for ID from the glovebox and Zodiac being right handed pressed the gun into the region behind his left ear and fired. The gun may have been inside the vehicle when fired and the ejected shell casing ricocheted onto the floorboard of the vehicle. But for whatever reason no close ups of the interior were shown as they were at Presidio Heights and the police report never mentions any blood in the car. However Zodiac states in the Chronicle letter "the boy was on his back with his feet to the car", so why does Bidou twice state he found the male in the car, it's a pretty big slip of the tongue. Were the photographs of the crime scene with both body positions shown in the newspapers before Zodiac's Chronicle letter. If not and Bidou had discovered Faraday in the driver's seat and Faraday's body had been moved then Zodiac must have passed the scene later to view the altered position. I know it's a long shot but something isn't right. Had Zodiac ordered Faraday out of the car there is no need to make a contact wound behind the back of Faraday's ear, a shot from 6-12 inches would work, but that would have damaged the ear itself but the wound is such that a gun was pressed behind the ear, not a natural position to achieve if Zodiac is to the right of Faraday as he exits the Rambler. I'm also not convinced both were ordered from the passenger door.

[Tahoe27]

Thanks for posting this UK. I can't remember the thread this was originally brought up in.

It is odd isn't it? First (in the first youtube video you link) he states that the body was still in the car, then later he states he can still see the bodies lying on the ground. Is he THAT confused now? It just doesn't make sense.

One would think too the cops Stella flagged down would have been first on the scene.

Is it possible David was in the car? I suppose--nothing with this case surprises me now, I just don't think so. I think whoever shot David could have been left handed and simply been trying to keep him at bay by holding the gun close to him...then firing. As stated, there was no mention of blood inside the vehicle and no trail of blood if the body had been moved.

Unfortunately, some of these older officers have shown foggy memories or twist things for whatever reason. Sad, but true.

[UKSpycatcher]

David Faraday's Rambler is observed for at least a 15 minute time period from when they were observed alive by the Your's around 11.00 pm until Stella Borges passed the turnout around 11.15 pm, when she observed the bodies lying in the turnout and raced off towards Benicia to alert Officer Daniel Pitta. We know Stella Borges passed the scene at around 11.15 pm, the exact minute is not important, it could have been 11.13, 11.14 or 11.16 pm, but she sped off towards Benicia and attracted the attention of Officer Pitta. He arrived at the crime scene between 11.22 pm and 11.28 pm, depending on whose opinion you read
Yes Tahoe something doesn't make sense and as somebody else has mentioned Pierre Bidou after seizing the marijuana, stated he passed the turnout on the way to Benicia Police Department, his headlights illuminated the turnout and nobody was observed. It takes approximately 8 minutes to arrive at the Benicia Police Department from this location traveling at 30 mph, at which point he receives the dispatcher's call of a possible murder, turns around and heads back up Lake Herman Road. Pierre Bidou had to have passed the scene before the murders, but how can 8 minutes later or even 10 minutes later a possible double murder have been reported. The timeline of the above witnesses is 15 minutes. In other words after Pierre Bidou had passed the turnout David Faraday and Betty Lou Jensen would have had to park up, been spotted by six eyewitnesses over a period of 15 minutes, Zodiac would have pulled up and killed them both and Stella Borges then would have raced off to notify Officer Daniel Pitta a further 3 to 4 minutes later, meaning he was the first officer to have been told of the crime. This means 18 to 19 minutes had elapsed from the first eyewitnesses spotting David Faraday's Rambler to the reporting of the crime to Officer Daniel Pitta, so how could Pierre Bidou have been notified as he pulled into the Benicia Police Department 8 to 10 minutes later after passing an empty turnout.

Pierre Bidou This is the Zodiac Speaking "As I was pulling into the lot at the police department we heard the Benicia Police Department dispatcher put out a call of a possible shooting and victims on Lake Herman Road and described the location. My partner and I turned around at that time and responded to the call."

[UKSpycatcher]

Tahoe here are two more examples of Bidou saying Faraday was in the car.
In the https://beniciaherald.wordpress.com/the-zodiac-case/ article it states "Inside the car, the officers found a boy in the passenger’s seat who appeared as if “he was trying to get out” of the car. Bidou remembers seeing the shattered glass of the car window, pierced by a bullet. More poignantly, he also remembers that the boy was still breathing."
And on 'Richard Gaikowski-The Case of the Zodiac Killer' video we get a further example at 13:19 where Bidou says "The male was still halfway in the vehicle and he was showing signs of breathing." https://youtu.be/rO0u4e3qS9s?t=13m19s
That is four times too many for a mistake.

Since it was Faraday's car and he was supposedly driving, being found in the passenger seat with a bullet wound on the inside of his left ear is suggestive of Faraday attempting to move away from a killer approaching the driver side door and why one casing was found on the floorboard of the passenger side.

[Itsapuzzle]

This is an interesting thread--I also wondered about the video interviews and newspaper articles that said David was found either in or half-way out of the car. But Stella Borges account was she saw 2 bodies and first officer on the scene Pitta also described David as having his feet to the rear wheel. The chalk outline of his body shows a large pool of blood where his head was. But I have puzzled over the account of the officers who responded to the drug bust, then drove past gate 10 turnout 8-10 minutes before the attack and (?) Officer Bidieu said he saw no car at the turnout. How could that be? It was pretty well established that the Yours' saw the station wagon there 15-20 minutes before the attack. And somewhere in the file I remember reading a classmate's account of seeing David and Betty Lou parked there and stopping to tease them.

After reading through so many files and newspaper accounts I've come to the conclusion that newspaper articles need to be vetted. There were just so many little mistakes written--and maybe even some facts meant to mislead or obscure planted by the detectives.

[Tahoe27]

There just seems to be too much proof David was outside of the car. As to why Bidou would bs...I have no idea. Maybe to cover his original flub?