Zodiackillersite.com

I know that there have been people who have been to the crime scene and have done so both during the day and at night. In thinking about the events of 12/20/68 and the witness account of a guard at Humble Oil speaking to a man in a black car with green speedometer indicator light, I'm wondering, could the location of the crime scene be visible from the location of the guard? Wouldn't have to be perfect. More interested in knowing whether lights coming or going from the crime scene could be viewed from the guards location.

Any input would be appreciated.

Soze

No, not from the scene of the crime.

How far was the guard's post from the scene (approx. distance in yards or ft if anyone has any idea please post it.) I ask because if it is that close then the guard would and should have been far more likely to hear shots fired.

Thank you Tahoe.

Soze

YW Soze.

The entrance to Humble Oil is quite far and not off LHR, but "Old Lake Herman Road"--(also known as Reservoir Rd)

Mrs. Your brought it up and mentioned, after heading back toward Benicia having passed David's car at the turnout: "They drove slowly over the old Lake Herman Road. She states she kept looking back and did not see the lights of the pick up truck or any other lights on the road in back of them."

It goes on to mention the entrance of Humble Oil and their incident at that location: http://www.zodiackiller.com/LHRPR17.html

Ok it's hard to tell by just seeing a map of the area just how close or far one point is from another. I am not trying to put you on the spot here Tahoe I just simply value your opinion enough to ask do you think that the sound would carry from the scene to the guard post and do so sufficiently to enable the guard to audibly hear it? I have never been there so can't really get a good feel for the layout but in regards to the ability for sound to travel in that area there is a claim Zodiac makes that helps to get closer to an answer when he says "That area is surrounded by high hills and trees." This would tend to suggest that it's a perfect vacuum for sound to travel and echo throughout the enclosed area, is that a fair statement to make do you think?

You know, I think the argument could go either way. Having shot guns myself, sometimes the sound seems to echo for miles, but depending on location that noise can be muzzled as well.

I do think the sound would travel a relatively good distance. One shot, people probably wouldn't think twice. As many shots as Zodiac fired? I think one would take notice if in the area.

Had the hunters still been just down the road, there would be no doubt in my mind they would have heard them. I could see how James Owen might have heard a/the shots, but to me, he would have had to have been on the closer side rather than further.

According to "google" it is about 1.4 miles to the entrance of Humble Oil...give or take a little bit depending on the actual entrance at the time, which still had to be in that general area.

Well that is one of many reasons why I am highly suspicious of Owen and his claims of seeing a second vehicle. As you know his recollection and statements in the first interview he gives police are inconsistent and contradictory wit the second but here is the question regarding his seeming to recollect hearing a single shot:

If he hears one round fired, then obviously any other subsequent shots fired will also, and especially, be audible to him. I say especially because if you hear one report that you believe was a shot fired, your very likely to be even more attuned and making a point to listen for anymore that may follow if only for the safety of your own self because James and the rest of us are not going to want to drive straight down a road with bullets flying all over the place each marked with a greeting of "To whom it may concern" before it slams into the Brain of someone passing by.

Anyway the question is, how can only hear one shot? There were, was it 5 or 6 shots at Betty Lou, six shots fired at her, 5 hitting the target I believe? And one round expended to dispatch her companion making 7 shots fired in total. Now we don't know how the crime happened in specific chronological sequence but it's always been assumed and accepted that David was shot first which is what caused Betty Lou to try and flee onto Lake Herman Road but was quickly cut down in the hail of bullets by the person responsible. So, if we are to assume that this is what happened based on the scene etc, then we must assume that Zodiac shot David, and Betty tried to flee at seeing this happen, and because she did not get even as far as the road itself, must have been shot at by rounds that were fired within seconds of the one that executed Faraday? How can Owen not hear the succession of 6 shots that surely have to come within 5, maybe 10 seconds at tops, after the initial lone shot he reports to have heared?

Welsh Chappie wrote:. . .

Anyway the question is, how can only hear one shot? There were, was it 5 or 6 shots at Betty Lou, six shots fired at her, 5 hitting the target I believe? And one round expended to dispatch her companion making 7 shots fired in total.

How can Owen not hear the succession of 6 shots that surely have to come within 5, maybe 10 seconds at tops, after the initial lone shot he reports to have heared?

Let's not forget there were 10 shots fired in total. 5 at Betty Lou. 1 at David. And I believe 2 at the car as well as 2 unaccounted for.

Owen "thinks" he heard a shot 1/4 mile down the road. He has his radio on. Slightly further down the road and its entirely possible he may not have heard another shot. But lets say he does. We have a shooting range in the area and we can see from the hunters testimony that people do "hunt" in the area. Would this alarm someone in the area? Back in those days, I cant imagine it would. Today, if there were no shooting range close by, I would say it would.

Soze

W.C. - I agree it seems odd he wouldn't have heard the shots after David. Maybe (like Soze mentioned) he was in the process of turning on his radio...his heater kicked on...he coughed, etc. I just mean maybe there was something that happened that prevented him from hearing the rest.

Soze - I was thinking about you comment and agree, most probably wouldn't think too much of gun fire that night. One would think later, having heard the news, they would come forward had they heard gunfire. You would THINK.

In regards to the shooting range, I still question whether it was there back in 1968.

We know there is a range down there now. The reason I question this is I asked "Ed Rust", of the VPD (who, of course, was an officer at the time Darlene and Mike were attacked) if he knew of a shooting range at that location. He was not aware of one there. Granted he was Vallejo, but I imagine they would be aware of other police departments shooting ranges in the area.

Another reason is it is never mentioned in the police reports. When referring to the site David and Betty Lou were killed, whether by police or citizens, it is always referred to as "the pumping station".