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David's and Betty Lou's whereabouts on Dec 20th, 1968 are common knowledge, but only because they were both murdered and found out on Lake Herman Road. Because we now know where they were when they were murdered, we also discover that that isn't where they told Betty's parents they were going. Now if David & Bettye had told their parents that they were going to see a play but knew they were going to the lovers lane to be alone then I'd probably not be writing this. But, it doesn't seem David & Betty headed out to the Lovers Lane spot so they could be alone because apparently David had told his sister, Debbie, that a bunch of people would be out there also this night. So, obvious question: Why? What was their reason for several youngsters to meet in the middle of nowhere? Or maybe more importantly, who were these others, and why did they seemingly fail to show up?

David's sister, Debbie Faraday, who was 16 years old in 1968 was spoken to by Police and told them that David had told her that he was going out to Lake Herman Road that night as 'a bunch of other kids were going out to Lake Herman Road' also. The Officer writing the report notes that Debbie Faraday says she knows some of the people that he said was going out to Lake Herman but that she could not contact them on the phone at that time and stated she would do so after they had gone and report back to them. That is odd for me. Why wouldn't she just give them their names so the police could speak to them and try and help discover who killed her brother? Also, why didn't these others show up?

Also, considering this was Betty's very first date her parents had allowed her to go on, and the first date for Betty with David also, it seems strange to me that Betty had an 11PM curfew and yet, her and David are still parked up on Lake Herman at 11.15 just before we know they were shot and killed. I would have though David would have wanted her back by 11PM on their first date to make a good impression. That's the unfortunate thing here, had David and Betty stuck to Betty's curfew, they probably would have avoided becoming Zodiac Victims.

(Anyone else find the crime scene photo of Betty laying in the Gravel Gated Area odd? Why is there so much blood seeming to come from her head and much more than her body when she was not shot in the head but 5 times in the back? Pic Below...)

WARNING: PICTURE BELOW IS FAIRLY GRAPHIC.

A bullet through a lung will have that effect sometimes. Blood was more than likely coming out of her mouth/nose.

BuckwheatFlowers wrote:A bullet through a lung will have that effect sometimes. Blood was more than likely coming out of her mouth/nose.

Yes being shot in the torso hitting vital organs would make blood seep from the mouth, I would expect that. But that much blood? She may have possibly fallen and hit her head on the concrete also I suppose.

Welsh Chappie wrote:But that much blood?

Yes.

Welsh Chappie wrote:The Officer writing the report notes that Debbie Faraday says she knows some of the people that he said was going out to Lake Herman but that she could not contact them on the phone at that time and stated she would do so after they had gone and report back to them. That is odd for me. Why wouldn't she just give them their names so the police could speak to them and try and help discover who killed her brother?

I wondered about that one, too. Another thing: Wasn't there written in the police report that her shoes were soaked of blood? No blood on or in her shoes, as far as I can see. The blood trail leading to her face is very strange. Possibly ran downwards after she was lying there. Or as if she had moved or puked the blood before falling down. Also there is no blood on her back or the front of her chest at all, which I actually would have expected. The blood appears to be quite fresh, 20 minutes or less, imo. Also remarkable: Her feet direct to the left of her body, while her left arm appears to be under her body and therefore directed to the right. This position is very strange.

And the sketch is therefore actually - wrong:

http://beniciaherald.files.wordpress.co ... zodiac.jpg

QT

It's not so much the actual position of her body itself that I find strange, it's the direction she is facing! If she is running away from Zodiac and towards Lake Herman Road itself with Zodiac shooting at her from somewhere near the Rambler where the casings were found, then how the hell has she fallen face first facing toward the Rambler and where Zodiac is shooting from? She's fallen as if she's heading toward the Rambler when she's shot in the back which means that Zodiac couldn't have shot her from the location where the spent casings were found.

This is an important point to ponder. Moving or positioning the body after murder would be behavior specific, such as in the Domingo Edwards murders.
It's only been 100 years since the crimes, but if Zodiac repositioned Betty Lou, wouldn't his DNA be on her dress maybe? Did Zodiac place her body so it
could be seen by the road, making a statement as it were?

Welsh Chappie wrote:David's and Betty Lou's whereabouts on Dec 20th, 1968 are common knowledge, but only because they were both murdered and found out on Lake Herman Road. Because we now know where they were when they were murdered, we also discover that that isn't where they told Betty's parents they were going. Now if David & Bettye had told their parents that they were going to see a play but knew they were going to the lovers lane to be alone then I'd probably not be writing this. But, it doesn't seem David & Betty headed out to the Lovers Lane spot so they could be alone because apparently David had told his sister, Debbie, that a bunch of people would be out there also this night. So, obvious question: Why? What was their reason for several youngsters to meet in the middle of nowhere? Or maybe more importantly, who were these others, and why did they seemingly fail to show up?

Yes, as I recently mentioned...this has bothered me too.

It was mentioned on a Vallejo FB page (on more than one occasion) by a person who was allegedly there that evening with friends and spoke with and teased David & Betty Lou ("thought they were so cute") about a half hour before they were murdered. Betty Lou's best friend at the time (Sharon) was on this FB page and questioned this person. They replied by saying "we" partied out there all the time. (This person did attend Hogan High at the time).

Sharon's brother contacted Tom Voigt about it, and Tom tried contacting this person, but never heard back. This was in June of 2013.

Zam mentioned this same scenerio here: viewtopic.php?f=96&t=1020

All I can say is, if true, we can only hope they went to law enforcement because it would be just shameful if they never did. Sharon didn't seem to know anything about it! And if true, it could be one of the other "mysterious" cars out there that evening.

I just can't figure out for the life of me how it is that Zodiac fires 6 bullets at Betty standing behind her as she tires desperately to run for her life, five of the six bullets impact her down the right side if her back and in response she stops dead in her tracks, turns around to look at Zodiac, then falls face first to her final resting position facing the rambler and, apparently, her killer. If she fell forward toward the rambler due to the impact of bullet after bullet and fell toward the Rambler then the shooter would need to be stood where many believe he parked his car in order to et Betty with 5 shots from behind and also fall consistently with momentum and gravity but i know what some are thinking....The shell casings! They were found grouped in the same small general area by David's Rambler and thus suggests the shooter was stood over this side of the gated entrance. Either he moved Betty's body to end up facing that way, or he hasn't touched Betty's body, then it surely has to be the shell casings he's deliberately picked up and placed from over here and put's them over there? If Betty fell facing the Rambler then that was her direction she was going in when she collapsed and if Zodiac was shooting from the rambler position then the slugs would have hit Betty in the front of her torso around the chest and lungs area.

It seems that no only do the Laws of the land not apply to Zodiac, but neither do the Laws of Physics.

But regarding Zodiac possibly 'posing' Betty's dead or dying body, I don't know..... This was Zodiac's first known attack in what would be a series of attacks with the intent being to commit homicide. Serial Killers will more often than not evolve and get more and more confident with each murder they get away with but that is over time. My own personal opinion on the likelihood of him re-arranging the body of Betty Lou, whether for maximum shock value for whoever is unlucky enough to stumble upon the scene or any other reason, then I'd probably say its entirely possible, yes. But probable? Not really. He's totally exposed there at that gravel gated entrance to the pumping station because as Pierre Bidou said "Your headlights shine right in there as you pass by."

Sod it, put it down to Z having OCD and can't leave the scene until it is just so (that was a bad attempt at being humorous, lol)

Tahoe27 wrote:

Welsh Chappie wrote:David's and Betty Lou's whereabouts on Dec 20th, 1968 are common knowledge, but only because they were both murdered and found out on Lake Herman Road. Because we now know where they were when they were murdered, we also discover that that isn't where they told Betty's parents they were going. Now if David & Bettye had told their parents that they were going to see a play but knew they were going to the lovers lane to be alone then I'd probably not be writing this. But, it doesn't seem David & Betty headed out to the Lovers Lane spot so they could be alone because apparently David had told his sister, Debbie, that a bunch of people would be out there also this night. So, obvious question: Why? What was their reason for several youngsters to meet in the middle of nowhere? Or maybe more importantly, who were these others, and why did they seemingly fail to show up?

Yes, as I recently mentioned...this has bothered me too.

It was mentioned on a Vallejo FB page (on more than one occasion) by a person who was allegedly there that evening with friends and spoke with and teased David & Betty Lou ("thought they were so cute") about a half hour before they were murdered. Betty Lou's best friend at the time (Sharon) was on this FB page and questioned this person. They replied by saying "we" partied out there all the time. (This person did attend Hogan High at the time).

Sharon's brother contacted Tom Voigt about it, and Tom tried contacting this person, but never heard back. This was in June of 2013.

Zam mentioned this same scenerio here: viewtopic.php?f=96&t=1020

All I can say is, if true, we can only hope they went to law enforcement because it would be just shameful if they never did. Sharon didn't seem to know anything about it! And if true, it could be one of the other "mysterious" cars out there that evening.

I've read the same on that Vallejo FB page. There is one person who said the same thing more than once. I hope they contacted LE, too, and told them what they saw and when.