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Seagull wrote:The James Owen who is in the police reports was James A Owen and he lived at 1735 Mini Dr. in the 1968-69 Vallejo Polk's Directory. His occupation is listed as Refinery Tech at Humble Oil.

Thanks for looking, plus that looks like a WM J OWEN at that address in SF

morf13 wrote:

Seagull wrote:The James Owen who is in the police reports was James A Owen and he lived at 1735 Mini Dr. in the 1968-69 Vallejo Polk's Directory. His occupation is listed as Refinery Tech at Humble Oil.

Thanks for looking, plus that looks like a WM J OWEN at that address in SF

Can we rule out that it's one of James' relatives? I doubt the person is related to James Owen that we are interested in as Owen not an uncommon name, but you never know.

Anyway, going back to one of the original points on page one of this thread, I still think that Betty has way too much blood flow from the head area for it to be simply coming from her mouth due to being shot in the torso. Below is a side by side of David's blood loss from a shot to the head with Betty's next to it. They are quite similar:

Another thing, Zodiac repeatedly said in his first three letters to three Bay Area newspapers is that "The girl was on her right side, feet to the west." She looks on her front face down to me.

Betty Lou was shot more times than David. There were more wounds on Betty Lou for the blood to have flowed from and I think that is why there is a larger amount of blood.

Welsh Chappie wrote:Another thing, Zodiac repeatedly said in his first three letters to three Bay Area newspapers is that "The girl was on her right side, feet to the west." She looks on her front face down to me.

We have discussed this elsewhere on the forum, either this one or the old one. It was suggested that Betty Lou may have involuntarily changed positions in the throes of death. She may have been on her side when Zodiac last saw her but perhaps precariously and she rolled onto her face after he left. Also, maybe the first responders when checking to see if she had a pulse moved her a bit.

Yeah I wondered if the paramedics/Police had moved her in an attempt to save her life but I thought if they had they'd have turned her onto her back so they could start CPR Chest Compressions etc. I know Betty as shot 5 times and David once, but there just seems to be too much blood loss from Bettys head for it to be from bullets to the torso for me. It looks to me like she's been shot in the head for there to be that big a pool of blood around her head. I mean I am not qualified to offer an opinion based on a knowledge of the body's reaction to bullet penetration, and never has it been suggested she was shot in any other part of the body except her torso. Police never tell the public everything about a crime and it's scene for obvious reasons. I readily accept that I am probably making something out of nothing but it just looks too much blood for me. :-/

Seagull wrote:

Welsh Chappie wrote:Another thing, Zodiac repeatedly said in his first three letters to three Bay Area newspapers is that "The girl was on her right side, feet to the west." She looks on her front face down to me.

We have discussed this elsewhere on the forum, either this one or the old one. It was suggested that Betty Lou may have involuntarily changed positions in the throes of death. She may have been on her side when Zodiac last saw her but perhaps precariously and she rolled onto her face after he left. Also, maybe the first responders when checking to see if she had a pulse moved her a bit.

Not just Zodiac, but also Borges claimed that Betty was on her side. Borges said she was on her side,then she raced off for help.

morf13 wrote:

Seagull wrote:

Welsh Chappie wrote:Another thing, Zodiac repeatedly said in his first three letters to three Bay Area newspapers is that "The girl was on her right side, feet to the west." She looks on her front face down to me.

We have discussed this elsewhere on the forum, either this one or the old one. It was suggested that Betty Lou may have involuntarily changed positions in the throes of death. She may have been on her side when Zodiac last saw her but perhaps precariously and she rolled onto her face after he left. Also, maybe the first responders when checking to see if she had a pulse moved her a bit.

Not just Zodiac, but also Borges claimed that Betty was on her side. Borges said she was on her side,then she raced off for help.

Well if she was laying on her side when Stella saw her, then either Betty Lou was still alive and rolled onto her front herself after Stella speeds away (which would suggest that the incident itself must have occurred literally seconds to a minute or two at most before she pulls up) or, someone else moved her into that position and seen as none of the R.O's, Ambulance Paramedics or anyone else reports moving Betty, then surely the killer must have and if the killer did, he moved her after Stella had driven by but before the R.O's responded to the scene which would mean.... He was still there at the scene somewhere whilst Stella went passed.

But back to the large amount of blood around Bettys head area, I just re-read the Police Report and the first thing R.O's Butterbach & Waterman recall about the scene and victim Betty Lou was "There was a body on the ground partially covered with a wool blanket. The face and head were covered in blood."
There would be no reason for her face and head in general to be covered in blood if she'd simply been shot in the torso.

Welsh Chappie wrote: There would be no reason for her face and head in general to be covered in blood if she'd simply been shot in the torso.

You would think so but she was shot through both lungs. Three through the right lung and one through the left with "extensive hemorrhaging" to both. So, perhaps that blood came out of her mouth and nose and if she did roll before finally passing away then that would account for blood on the head and the face.

Whenever you are shot in the torso or lung their is a good chance you are going to cough up blood. Especially when your lungs are shot and they fill up with blood. It's an extremely gruesome death.