Zodiackillersite.com

Well Stella Borges is minutes behind James Owen. Owen states that after passing the scene, about a quarter of a mile on, he thought he heard a shot. Approaching the scene shortly afterwards is Stella Borges who states that no other vehicle passed her going in the opposite direction which was back toward Vallejo. So, Zodiac didn't go toward Vallejo if he's in a vehicle, so he must have gone toward Benicia in the same travel direction as Owen and Borges. Borges says that after she arrived at the scene and saw the two victims laying on the ground, she sped toward Benicia at 70 to 80 MPH and stopped an approaching patrol car. So where had he gone in his vehicle?

Owen also states that when he saw the two vehicles, no people were in them. Yet minutes later, Borges comes upon the scene and David Faraday is laying next to his passenger side door as if he's been shot having just exited the vehicle. Also, Pierre Bidou states "We felt that we were probably only minutes from the actual crime scene when it happened and again, to the best of my recollection, we did not pass any other vehicle or traffic." Pierre did say they take a bit of a short cut and that could have been where they missed a passing vehicle but for me, again this would have to be just too convenient.

Tahoe27 wrote:

Craigfitzer wrote:

jamesmsv wrote:I know the official story is that there were no tyre tracks - however I'm fairly certain that the police did report light footprints around the rambler which suggested Z's attack route around the car. How can a man leave faint footprints but a car not leave even faint tyre tracks?

I remember reading that about the "partial" foot print somewhere as well, which of course raises question about not having car tire tracks.

I don't think there was mention of footprints around the car. ?

There was a footprint elsewhere behind a shack or something, but there was no way of knowing when it was left.

The footprint was found the other side of the fence in the area where David and Betty were parked according to one of the newspaper reports.

Has anyone found any aerial footage of the area from back then? If so it might help to overlay them over modern google images to figure out how the geography in that area changed.

The theory of how this crime unfolded has, from the time it happened, been generally accepted and it says that:

Zodiac pulls into the gated gravel entrance somewhere to the right of David's rambler.
Zodiac walks over to David and Betty and orders them out and fires a couple of shots into the vehicle to force them out.
David obliges and exit's, only to be shoot execution style by Z which spurs Betty, in absolute panic and fear, to run when she's gunned down.

That could be correct but that leaves a few questions unanswered like, why did Zodiac want them out of the car? Why didn't he just walk up and shoot David while he's in the vehicle, followed by Betty, like he did to Mike and Dee at Blue Rock Springs? He has control of the situation and victims if they are confined to a small car. Once they are out, one or both running in the pitch dark and moving targets the control of the victims is no longer easy. We know he tried executing Mageau as soon as he walked up to his passenger door by aiming at his head and pulling the trigger and Mike saved his life by seeing the gun pointing at his head and throwing his head backward to avoid the bullet. At Lake B, Z wouldn't even get within arms length of Bryan, ordering Cecelia to restrain him before Zodiac would approach. Yet, at Lake Herman he orders David out of the vehicle and shoots him, instead of just shooting him through the window? Doesn't sound rite.

What if David was out of the rambler and around the passenger side not under any threat or orders from Z, but by his own free choice? What if Zodiac pulls in, and David knows him, maybe even expecting him and had arranged to meet him there for some reason? David see's Zodiac's car pull in and recognises it as the person he is there to meet and exit's his own vehicle, walks around the back of the rambler, and to the back passenger area where the Zodiac walks up to meet him. David is nervous because his reason for being there is not entirely legal, and so he nervously plays with his high school ring between his fingers. David turns to look toward Benicia and Zodiac shoots him. Up to now, Betty doesn't think anything is wrong. But she hears a loud report, see's a flash, and David slumps to the floor. She is in sheer terror and instinctively tries to run but Zodiac cuts her down.

See if Zodiac walked up and fired shots into the vehicle ordering them out, why don't they either try and start the car and floor it, and likewise, would David really crawl over to exit the passenger side with the shooter stood rite there? Doubt it. But after he executes David, he then fires the shots into the car from the rear of the rambler and that explains why Betty exited her passenger side and made a run for it.

Also, David & Betty were parked there some hours that night and is it really a coincidence that the Zodiac shows up just after the police raid has been completed and the officers vacated the area? It's almost perfect timing because Pierre Bidou states that they had left Lake Herman with the drugs they seized and had just about got back to the station when they were called back to Lake Herman for a double 187. Did the Zodiac believe David was responsible for tipping the police off? After all, David had publically made threats to go to police and inform on one of the young men involved in the drug underworld. How did David know this deal was going down? Betty was familiar with the guy in question and probably knew he was involved in drugs and dealing and she is likely the source of David's information.

Just another 'Theory'.

Welsh Chappie wrote:That could be correct but that leaves a few questions unanswered like, why did Zodiac want them out of the car? Why didn't he just walk up and shoot David while he's in the vehicle, followed by Betty, like he did to Mike and Dee at Blue Rock Springs?

Maybe he wanted to tie them up and stab them, just like he did at Lompoc Beach.

Welsh Chappie wrote: Once they are out, one or both running in the pitch dark and moving targets the control of the victims is no longer easy.

I brought this up in another thread recently - it's interesting that Z was prepared for this very scenario with the taped flashlight. My feeling is he wanted to try out his new invention and at least the Betty Lou running part was planned. As to what happened before that, I think this thread is proof enough that we're never going to know for sure - however finding out whether Z was known to the victims would lead to certain scenarios being more likely, like the ones you mention.

Well some believe Z was involved in Law Enforcement because of some of the words and phrases he used in letters, as well as some of his known actions (such as using a torch to blind your target, the angle Mageau describes the offenders vehicle pulling behind theirs to block escape etc). While having this in mind earlier, I though back to what witness duo Peggie and Homer recalled at approx. 11pm. They said that as hey passed by the Rambler, the Male in the drivers seat appeared placed both hands on the Ramblers steering wheel. When police pull suspects over, standard training is to get the suspect to keep his hands on the wheel where he Officer can see them. I wondered if Zodiac was ducked in the back seat behind David with a gun to his head ordering him to keep his hands where he can see them as the vehicle passes by to make sure David doesn't try flashing his headlights, honking the horn etc. Just a thought. See if Zodiac were sat behind David, that could explain how David came to have a small contusion on the jaw/chin area. If David tried to grab Z's arm and was wrestling with the gun, maybe Zodiac, being behind David in the back seat, used his free arm to swing and hit David in the Jaw. David opens his door and Zodiac still has hold of him and Zodiac himself opens his back door and just as David exits, Zodiac is there waiting and executes him. Betty attempts to run but is quickly stopped by a hail of bullets.

But I just been going over the police report of The LHR Incident and one person jumps off the page for his description. Referred to only as 'Pete', he is described in the Police Report as: "About 28 years old, 5'11", Jet Black Hair and Acne pits on his face. Owns both rifle & pistol and carries fishing knife in his pocket."

I was flicking through Van Nuys Book earlier and came across something I'd forgot about. It's Robert Graysmith's attempted solving of the Cipher Z sent on Nov 8. I will waste no time in admitting I know nothing of Cryptology and Ciphers and have no idea how close or accurate Roberts deciphered text is. Anyway, below is a copy of the Cipher as it appears when sent by Zodiac, which ill follow up with copying Roberts deciphered message...

Cipher as written by Zodiac:


R.Gs deciphered message:
HERB CAEN:
I GIVE THEM HELL TOO. BLAST THESE LIES. SLUETH SHOELD (SHOULD) SEE A NAME BELOW KILLERS FILM. A PILLS GAME.
PARDON ME AGCEPT TO BLAST NE (ME). BULLSHIT. THOES FOOLS SHALL MEET KILLER. PLEASE ASK LUNDBLAD.
SOEL (SOUL) AT H LSD UL CLEAR LAKE. SO STARE I EAT A PILL, ASSHOLE. I PLANT MR A.H PHONE AT LAKE B.
ALL SLAVES BECAUSE LSD WILL (WAS) STOLEN EITHER SLAVE SHALL I HELL SLASH TOSCHI?
THE PIG STALLS DEALS OC (OF) EIGHTH SOEL (SOUL) SLAIN.

Welsh Chappie wrote:Also, David & Betty were parked there some hours that night and is it really a coincidence that the Zodiac shows up just after the police raid has been completed and the officers vacated the area? It's almost perfect timing because Pierre Bidou states that they had left Lake Herman with the drugs they seized and had just about got back to the station when they were called back to Lake Herman for a double 187. Did the Zodiac believe David was responsible for tipping the police off? After all, David had publically made threats to go to police and inform on one of the young men involved in the drug underworld. How did David know this deal was going down? Betty was familiar with the guy in question and probably knew he was involved in drugs and dealing and she is likely the source of David's information.

Just another 'Theory'.

I sort of said the same thing about Bidou on pg 4.

The man at the "Pancake House" who mentioned allegedly mentioned David and "weed" is not the same person associated with Betty Lou.

I have always wondered who the friends were who told them some of them would be out on LHR that night, and hope they eventually came forward and mentioned that. I have a feeling that is why they were there, to meet friends, but David does not seem the drug type--probably just hanging out. They were not parked there for hours.

Also, one casing was found on what would looks to be the opposite side of the other car parked there....the side closest to the fence. That would make it appear as if it was fired from the passenger side of the other car. COULD there have been two people?

See these two link:

http://www.zodiackiller.com/LHRPR4.html

http://www.zodiackiller.com/LHRPR5.html

If Roberts attempt at deciphering this code is fairly accurate (I said IF - lol) then that would really seem to open up a new set of questions!

"THOES FOOLS SHALL MEET KILLER. PLEASE ASK LUNDBLAD."

If, and again it's a big if, Zodiac is giving us a clue here then who did Sgt Lundblad personally interview after the Lake Herman crime? Was Zodiac spoken to by Sgt L on the night itself or maybe the days following the incident? Was this why the killer never took credit for Lake Herman for a whole 7 to 8 Months after the incident and after the Blue Rock attack? Was he in fear as he's been spoken to by police?

"I PLANT MR A.H PHONE LAKE B"

Anyone's guess as to what, and who, he refers to here.

"ALL SLAVES BECAUSE LSD WILL (WAS) STOLEN"

Is this all because his drugs were taken away? Could it be the raid on Dec 20, 1968 at Lake Herman when his precious stash was confiscated?

Tahoe27 wrote:

Welsh Chappie wrote:Also, David & Betty were parked there some hours that night and is it really a coincidence that the Zodiac shows up just after the police raid has been completed and the officers vacated the area? It's almost perfect timing because Pierre Bidou states that they had left Lake Herman with the drugs they seized and had just about got back to the station when they were called back to Lake Herman for a double 187. Did the Zodiac believe David was responsible for tipping the police off? After all, David had publically made threats to go to police and inform on one of the young men involved in the drug underworld. How did David know this deal was going down? Betty was familiar with the guy in question and probably knew he was involved in drugs and dealing and she is likely the source of David's information.

Just another 'Theory'.

I sort of said the same thing about Bidou on pg 4.

The man at the "Pancake House" who mentioned allegedly mentioned David and "weed" is not the same person associated with Betty Lou.

I have always wondered who the friends were who told them some of them would be out on LHR that night, and hope they eventually came forward and mentioned that. I have a feeling that is why they were there, to meet friends, but David does not seem the drug type--probably just hanging out. They were not parked there for hours.

Also, one casing was found on what would looks to be the opposite side of the other car parked there....the side closest to the fence. That would make it appear as if it was fired from the passenger side of the other car. COULD there have been two people?

See these two link:

http://www.zodiackiller.com/LHRPR4.html

http://www.zodiackiller.com/LHRPR5.html

It's possible T. And I didn't mean to portray David & Betty as drug mad teen's, I am just going by the police report where the lad harassing Betty threatens her to stay away from David or he'll punch him and that he'll tell her mother she 'smokes'. Smoke's in the UK can mean ciggs, or can be slang for weed. Not sure if it's the same in the US.