Today's visit to Lake Herman Road

[Seagull]

Apparently the gate did sit farther back at the time of the murders.

http://www.bermuda-triangle.org/from_fo ... e_zod.html

Screenshot 2014-01-01 at 9.13.09 PM.png

[sandy betts]

Thank you very much Seagull ! It looks much larger then than now . If z parked futher in towards the gate , it would be much harder to see his car coming from Vallejo. The crime scene drawing shows that Davids car was not next to the railing , I wonder if he was about to leave when Z stopped him ?

[Craigfitzer]

Why I asked was because if the gate was further back that would give Z a place to back into and then drive out straight making it easier to miss BLJ's body. Looks like that's the case.

[Quicktrader]

Very interesting pic..it shows that someone might have felt disturbed by a parked Faraday/Jensen car... whose property is it?

QT
(from 'Kristallhütte', 2,600m)

[morf13]

Why I asked was because if the gate was further back that would give Z a place to back into and then drive out straight making it easier to miss BLJ's body. Looks like that's the case.

While I think that is entirely possible, and a theory of mine is that Zodiac was backed in facing Lake Herman Rd for an easy escape,we have to remember that Owen places Zodiac's car as facing the gate

[sandy betts]

Very interesting pic..it shows that someone might have felt disturbed by a parked Faraday/Jensen car... whose property is it?

QT
(from 'Kristallhütte', 2,600m)

My guess is that the city of Benicia owned it then and now, that gate leads to the gun range used by BPD and VPD.

[sandy betts]

Why I asked was because if the gate was further back that would give Z a place to back into and then drive out straight making it easier to miss BLJ's body. Looks like that's the case.

Perhaps you are looking at the crime scene drawing and judging the narrow space by that very poor drawing. (It is not to scale), if it was then David's car was about 28 feet long !
The amount of feet from the bumper to Betty Lous body is probably correct,( Even though it looks much shorter ).Count how many feet it was from the telephone pole to the car, from the car to her body add those and you can get a better idea of how large that area was.

I still think Betty Lou ran around to the other side of the shooters car for protection from the shooter, if she was trying to run towards the street, it would have been closer to run in the other direction. David was standing next to the cars open door , Betty Lou could have been standing on his left side when David was shot. Unless there was enough room for her to stand on his right side closer to the door? The direction she took, tells me the shooter was to her left when she started to run .

The tire marks shown in the crime scene photo must have been made the next morning when the pictures were taken and not by the cars the night before. If the police said that there were no tire marks found then there weren't any.

[traveller1st]

I just want to add to Sandy's thinking on this in general. Regarding the road and the bends and the dips and turns. Owen was used to this journey, I would assume, and as such probably felt comfortable enough to use dipped beams when necessary. That and the possibility that Z was further in from the road given were the gate was back then (I had considered that too in the past). It leads me to lean towards it not being outside of the realms of possibility that Owens did see a second car but only got a glance it at.

The "lacking in chrome" statement further supports that in my mind because why is that relevant? well it's relevant because chrome reflects so basically I think Owens was saying " I did see a second card but it was hard to make out because I was observing, for a few seconds, what my headlights picked up." This maybe suggests to me that his headlights might have been dimmed since he was relying on reflection (in hindsight) to make sense of what he remembered. Also, for us Europeans, let's not forget that in the US they drive on the right which narrows the field of view approaching that bend from Vallejo, the other way the rambler is in the way.

If this were the case (no way to know really, is there?) then what else could he have missed?

[Tahoe27]

I think with this case, anything is possible and I consider all possibilities...even the shooter being on foot.

We know there were people out there walking around with guns. Other activity in the area. A drug bust that had taken place. Who knows...there could have been someone who bailed from there and thought David had something to do with it.

Officer Bidou stated he drove by and that you would be able to see another car there, if one were there. Owen said he saw one there, so I'm not sure why now we would think the other car was out of view. ??

[traveller1st]

I don't think it was out of view but I think that, for whatever reason, Owens had less of a chance to 'observe' it clearly. I was pitch black wasn't it? so the only window of opportunity is within what's in your headlights and for how long. That is affected by your speed, the setting on your beams and where your attention is focused regarding the road and how the road turns and how you drive yourself approaching a turn.

Was saying I guess that there's plenty of variables that could account for Owen's 'uncertain' description of the second car and variables that I don't consider unlikely.

The on foot thing hasn't been ruled out by myself either I have to say. I was thinking about that and there's no reason to assume he wasn't. I mean consider PH, he was on foot, technically, ie he didn't drive away in his own vehicle from the scene, he walked.....perhaps to where his car was? The reason we do is because of Owen's sighting of a second car. Is there a reason that second car had to be Zodiac's? I know the window is tight but is it tight enough for that not to be Zodiac but another random couple who pulled in and then changed their mind? Or something? Zodiac waiting in the shadows and observing the scene before striking. He might have been at that at BRS. Observe, drive in, leave, no one passing then drive back and go for it. Even for blitz attacks he seems to employ some sort of precursor. Like on the spot casing.

It's a curious one, this crime, but for whatever reason I can't discount Zodiac having pulled it off. By that I mean that I feel it was him and not anyone we know, at least not anyone we know that was there that night. Ah who knows, I lose focus halfway some posts lol. Good discussions though.