Zodiackillersite.com

Posted: **Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:25 am**

Timeline

Thursday:
4:30 PM – Ricky talks with Betty Lou on the phone

Friday:
1:00 PM – 5:00 PM Dian states that David told her that Ricky had seen him at the school halls (opposite to what Ricky states)
1:00 PM – 5:00 PM Ricky states he went to Debby’s house
3:00 PM – 5:00 PM Daniel states he saw Ricky washing his mothers car in the afternoon
3:00 PM – 5:00 PM Mrs. Jensen states that Burton called the house after 3:00PM pretty near every fifteen minutes.
1:00 PM – 5:00 PM Melodie Jobe states that David came over to Hogan and he had words with Burton.
5:00 PM - 6:00 PM Joe states that David and Betty Lou were at David (meant Dan? see below) .... home
5:00 PM – 6:00 PM Daniel confirms being with David and Betty
6:00 PM – According to her father, Betty Lou had told Melodie Jobe that a Richard Burton had threatened her sometime during the evening.
6:00 PM – Dan confirms David and Betty leaving
6:00 PM - Racoon hunter Robert goes to the Gasser ranch
7:00 PM - 7:15PM Ricky goes to the Gallenkamp store
7:10 PM - David drove his sister Debbie to a meeting of the Rainbow girls at the Pybian Castle
7:20 PM - David came back home
7:30 PM - David leaves again
8:00 PM - There is a phone call for Ricky at his house
8:00 PM - Melodie Jobe states that at this time, Betty Lou brought David home to her parents, acting on her advice
8:05 PM - Mr. Othis arrives at Ricky’s home
8:20 PM - Betty Lou and David came to Sharons house supposed to go to a party
9:00 PM - approximately, Betty Lou and David leave Sharons house
9:00 PM – Racoon hunters arrive at the pump station and observe a white 4-door hardtop, a '59 or '60 Impala, was parked there, and also, a truck coming out of the gate. This coincides with Information from Bingo Wesher (!) that when he came out of the gate he saw the same Impala and also saw the red pick-up truck go by (!).'
10:00 PM - Bingo Wesher observed a White Chevrolet, Impala Sedan, parked by the South fence of the entrance to the pumping station. He also observed a Red Ford P/U with wood side boards .
10:00 PM – 10:15 PM Peggie and Homer leave Sacramento
10:15 PM – Helen states that when she went by the car was facing in towards the gate (!)
10:30 PM – Sharon goes to a party
10:30 PM – Stan reports that they were going towards Blue Rock Springs on Columbus Parkway and a Olds, 2-door H.T. 88 (Don) blue in color and a '63 Chevrolet, Impala, Blue with two persons in it turned of Lake Herman road on to Columbus Parkway heading in the direction of Blue Rock Springs
10:30 PM – Helen states when she returned about 15 min. later after having gone to the end of the road and came back, the car was turned around and the front was facing the field, a little to the side.
10:53 PM – 11:05 PM Peggie and Homer arrived in the Benicia area, off of Highway #21
10:50 PM – 10:55 PM Mr. Othis leaves the house of Ricky’s wife
10:45 PM - 10:55 PM Ricky’s father leaves the home of his exwife, with Ricky still being there (acc. to him)
10:55 PM - Ricky’s mother confirms that his father left at around 10:55 PM
11:00 PM - Mr. Othis leaves the house of Ricky’s mother
11:00 PM – 11:08 PM Peggie and Homer arrived at Lake Herman Road
11:00 PM – 11:05 PM Racoon hunters arrive at their car from hunting
11:00 PM - Racoon Hunters leave the scene. Rambler was parked at the gate. It was parked Southwest of where we finally found the car (discrepancy).
11:10 PM - Racoon hunters wait 5 minutes until they meet Peggie & Homer as they drove in, turned around and drove back in the opposite direction towards Benicia
11: 15 PM - He states that approximately 5 minutes later they drove in his truck a '59 Chevrolet, red in color, with white wood sideboards, cattle guards, on the sides. They drove this truck back to the Gasser Ranch heading towards Benicia and they passed the car. .... insists that the Rambler was parked on the bank. That would be on the South side. He did not see any person in the car. He estimates he left the area between 11:00PM and 11:15PM.
11:13 PM – 11:14 PM Borges passes the scene no cars were going in either direction while she was on the road. When she arrived at the scene, headlights picked up the car and she observed a boy and he looked like he had fallen out of the open (!) door. The girl was lying on her side facing the road. (...) She saw only one car at the scene.
11:14 PM - Time written on James A. Owen sketch
11:14 PM - 11:20 PM Crime time according to police report
11:15 PM – 11:18 PM Peggie & Homer drive OLHR and states the station wagon still in the same spot
11:16 PM – 11:20 PM Peggie states as they drove by the entrance to Humble Oil Company, she saw a long dark colored car. The guard was leaning over talking to the man who was driving the car with greenish speedometer
11:00 PM – 11:20 PM Her husband Homer stated he was going West on Lake Herman road, he turned into the road going to the Marshall Ranch to turn around. He saw approximately 30 feet inside the road from the gate, a red pick up truck that had white wooden sides. A man was by the truck, he shined his flashlight into the car.
11:20 PM – James Owen drove by the location on Lake Herman Road. He states he saw two cars parked near the entrance to the pumping station. (...) The other (car) was parked to the right and abreast of the Station Wagon. The cars were about ten feet apart. (...). He definitely saw two cars, a station wagon and another vehicle, parked approximately three or four feet to the right of the station wagon. He did not see anyone in the cars or around them.
11:30 PM - Ricky is said to having gone to bed
11:52 PM - Time of the police reports

Saturday
12:15 AM – Racoon hunter Robert remained at the Gasser's house about an hour and then left out through Highway #21, through the Jamison Canyon and headed home, arriving about 12:30AM.
12:30 AM – Racoon hunter Robert arrives at home.

Posted: **Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:41 am**

^^ Good job. I think this needs it's own thread, though.

Here's something I want to bring up with the timeline. In the police report, it says Mrs. Medeiros lives 2.7 miles from the crime scene (checked by police officers) and that she passed no cars on the way. This always led me to believe that the culprit almost had to have left the crime scene and headed east towards Benicia as there would be way too small of a window to leave heading west without passing Mrs. Medeiros. Where is Mrs. Medeiros house? On LHR, across the street from her mom's ranch, 2.7 miles away. Well, 2.7 miles away puts the house around the quarry at the beginning of the road. Problem is there aren't any houses there. So I figured it's not there anymore. No biggie. But then, I came across this article one day....

http://beniciaherald.me/the-zodiac-case/#comment-27754

That has a picture of Albert Lossado (Stella Boges' nephew) standing in front of her old ranch house on LHR.

"So f'n what Bucky?" Right? Right. Except for that house is only 1.6 miles from the crime scene. Which opens up a couple more minutes in the time frame for the perp to head west towards Vallejo without being seen by Mrs. Medeiros. Good work by the police. I'm glad they double checked the distance.

Posted: **Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:42 pm**

Nice I like how this feels. Thinking wise anyhows. Perhaps others more acquainted with the timeline at LHR might like to comment.

Posted: **Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:30 am**

Ricky is a proven liar. And he didn't lie only once, but rather 2-3 times or more:

1. He claims he had not washed the car of his mother. He claims having it done on Wednesday or Thursday. However, Daniel states that he saw him washing his mother's car, prowling around that he will be able to drive it in the evening.

2. He claims that he had not seen David at the school in the afternoon. However, Dian states that David told her - only hours before his death - that Ricky had seen him at the school halls. Melodie Jobe confirms this version, either by seeing or she had been told by Betty Lou when she gave her the advice to bring David to their parents' home. Mr. Grove had arrived to this meeting, too.

3. Ricky states that after going to Debby's house, his mother had picked him up and brought him home. His mother, however, states that Ricky had left school at 3:00 PM, then went to his sisters home until 4:00 PM and finally returned - one hour later - home at 5:00 PM. She claims that Ricky 'returned' home, not that 'they' returned home or that she had picked him up. Also she states that she can account for his whereabouts from 3:00 PM to 4:15 PM only (http://www.zodiackiller.com/LHRPR43.html).

4. Mrs. Jensen claims that Ricky had called Betty Lou every 15 minutes. Ricky however mentions that he only had inquired Betty Lou of what was going on in school one day earlier.

So Ricky had lied regarding:

- washing his mother's car on that day (Daniel)
- being picked up by his mother at 4.00 PM and then being driven home (Mrs. Burton)
- calling Betty Lou on Thursday instead of calling on Friday every 15 minutes (Mrs. Jensen)

and are therefore three different witnesses, including his own mother, who made statements that are not complying with Ricky Burton's statements (http://www.zodiackiller.com/LHRPR37.html).

He was known for bugging Betty Lou and possibly peeking through her window to the extend that Betty Lou mentioned 'to close the curtains'.

Furthermore he had previously threatened Betty Lou Jensen and David Faraday to the extent that her sister adviced Betty Lou to take David to her parents' home. Witnesses also report that he had threatened to beat David up with a 'brass knuckle'.

And finally, a note of Betty Lou is found, in which she mentions that she was afraid of Richard Burton. On another occasion, Betty Lou states that Burton is 'spying' on her.

Finally, inspite of having mentioned to be willing to help the police, he refuses a polygraph test.

Mr. Othis, who had left Ricky's and Mrs. Burton's house at about 10:50 PM or 10:55 PM - 5-10 minutes after 'Global Affairs' movie was over (10:45 PM) - claims that Ricky had not left the room for more than a few minutes. However he and Ricky's father had left 15-20 minutes before David and Betty Lou were actually shot.

If Ricky had left to his room - Mr. Othis mentioned that he had moved to 'a couch' - he had enough time to leave his room e.g. through a window or the main door. He may or may not have taken the car of his mother and/or may or may not have been picked up by someone else, to drive to Lake Herman Road to meet there at 11:00 PM.

It is possible that David or Betty Lou by themselves had arranged a meeting there, after their discussion at school had been interrupted by Mr. Grove earlier in the afternoon.

Ricky Burton, however, can not be cleared at all from the killing of Jensen/Faraday and did he even lie multiple times in the homicide case of Jensen/Faraday. If there was no written confession of a presumably older 'Zodiac', Ricky is a prime POI in their killing.

I do think that an investigative custody would be justified to further investigate the statements of him and his mother, Larry, Jannette and Diane, who were at the house during that night.

QT

Posted: **Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:38 am**

The ONLY way Ricky killed them is if he was part of a Zodiac team. He had no way to drive all the way out there, and he certainly had no way to get out to Berryessa, and the person making the calls afterwards wasnt a teenage boy. Its highly unlikely he killed them

Posted: **Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:52 am**

morf13 wrote:The ONLY way Ricky killed them is if he was part of a Zodiac team. He had no way to drive all the way out there, and he certainly had no way to get out to Berryessa, and the person making the calls afterwards wasnt a teenage boy. Its highly unlikely he killed them

Guess he doesn't look like the Zodiac..is there anything that clearly rules him out, e.g. handwriting, height? I agree that he doesn't look like the sketch at all and was too young for being Z. Not sure if we can rule him out completely, even as acting alone (well, his father and Mr. Othis left earlier, too).

But another point: Not to forget that Darlene Ferrin had told her sister that she saw someone murdering somebody. This imo was the reason why she was killed months after the Jensen/Faraday. So she may possibly be placed at LHR around 11:14 as well.

Therefore her or Mike's car could have been seen there (we remember a car seen with two Caucasians). Or she might have been there with someone else, e.g. the mysterious man who gave her presents and was present at the painting party. And if so - does Mike Mageau know anything about what she had seen (he denies to..)?

Another question:
How is it possible that Stella Borges (Medeiros) finds the bodies at 11:13 PM to 11:14 PM, while James A. Owen sees a second car at 11:20 PM and Peggie and Homer Your, too, see the station wagon at 11:15 PM to 11:18 PM, without any bodies lying around?

Let's assume Stella Borges was later than she actually was aware of, e.g. 11:22:
She saw only one car, so the second car (of Z) must already have left the scene. She further mentioned that no car came into her direction, so the car probably went into the other direction. Two minutes earlier, James A. Owen saw the second car at 11:20 PM, which must then have been only one minute before the murder. This is coinciding with his statement that he had heart a shot. Peggie and Homer Your, however, had arrived at 11:15 PM to 11:18 PM, therefore only 4-7 minutes earlier. Mrs. ... reports that they did not pass any other car, however saw a long dark car at the entrance of Humble Oil company, with a guard talking to the driver. At LHR scene they only saw one one car. This would mean that the crime did actually happen sometime between 11:20 PM and 11:22 PM exactly (after James A. Owen saw the second car at 11:20 PM but before Stella Borges found the bodies as early as 11:22 PM).

Let's assume Stella Borges was actually correct with her time, finding the bodies sometime between 11:13 PM and 11:14 PM:
In that case, James Owen must have been passing by earlier, at about 11:12 PM to 11:14 PM, because he was still hearing the shot. Peggie and Homer Your, leaving the two racoon hunters sometime between 11:05 PM and 11:10 PM would have passed the scene only minutes before Owen and Borges passing the scene, with the crime happening only 2-4 minutes after they passed the station wagon. Mr. Owen stated that just before he approached the scene, a vehicle passed him going in the opposite direction toward Vallejo near Borges Ranch. As he was driving toward the scene, this could not have been Zodiac, because he did not see any bodies when passing by. However it might have been the car of Peggie and Homer Your. In that case, Zodiac was not driving ahead of James Owen, as Peggie mentioned that they did not pass any car and that they did not see a second car at the scene. What could have been, however, is that Zodiac drove behind the Yours car, stopped at LHR scene and then was seen by James Owen. Only seconds later, Owen hears a shot. Owen had left at 11:00 PM, according to his cuckoo clock and possibly was at the scene no later than 11:10 PM to 11:13 PM. According to the racoon hunters it is possible that the Yours had passed earlier (leaving at 11:05 PM to 11:10 PM). And, the yours had seen a car at the entrance of the Humble Oil company. In any case, they had left the racoon hunters earlier than they moved with their red pick-up. They possibly had been driving into the other direction, which is why they did not see the scene.

Let's assume that none of this witnesses is lying: Then either the time of Stella Borges or the time of Peggie and Homer Your is simply wrong. This could have happened accidentially or by purpose.

It seems to be a fact, however, that the Yours have seen a car at the entrance of Humble Oil company and that James Owen had heard a shot. As no other cars have been seen driving by, the man who talked to the guard at Humble Oil company could very well have been the Zodiac. Also, the dark car is described by both, the Yours and also did James Owen see a second car at the scene.

What is irritating, however, is that James Owen - after driving a quarter of a mile - hears a shot but shortly before, could not see anybody at the scene. I wonder if even James Owen was the driver at the Humble Oil company entrance? To get a clear picture, I should know about where all of these guys were actually living..to better understand in which directions they were going..

A last point: If the Yours had seen Jensen leaning against Faraday's shoulder, they were not 'hunted' with a Zodiac car but had rather already parked there on their own will.

To better understand who went when into what direction, we should collect all points of interest such as the entrance to Humble Oil company, the Reservoir Road scene, Old Lake Herman Road, Borges ranch, Owen's home etc. to get a full picture of what the witnesses actually had said.

QT

Posted: **Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:09 pm**

A couple points to clear up-

Owen said he left his house at 11:00 and got to the scene at about 11:20. His clock was found to be 5 minutes fast, meaning he really left at about 10:55 and got there at 11:14 or so.

Stella Borges said she left her house at about 11:10(going from memory), and that driving the 2and 7/10 miles from her house to the scene, she arrived there at about 11:15. If this was dad on, there was ZERO chance z could have done the shooting and escaped unseen. Here's where it gets real complicated, Stella's clock was found to be 3 minutes FAST. That means, she actually left at 11:07 or so,and would be there at 11:12 or so. Obviously,again, no way she got there before James Owen. She saw the bodies,and raced off at a high rate of speed to find police, which she did in Benicia at a gas station. Police indicate that she mad contact with them at 11:25,and that at the speed she drove, she had driven it in 5 minutes or so, which that puts her at the scene at 11:20.

This is the 'miracle' 6 minutes in which Z got away unseen. The luckiest guy in the world? I doubt it.

Let's say for a second, Owen was telling the truth, and he was there at 11:14. He went by the scene, and claims he heard a shot a 1/4 mile down the road, which is basically, almost 11:15, now Zodiac has to be even luckier to get away unseen as the window is even tighter. Zodiac could have did the crime in about 2 minutes, assuming there was no small talk, or BS stories about wanting to rob them,etc. Or, if there was no resistance. If there was BS stories,or resistance of any sort, then maybe deduct a minute off the already small window.

I think what it boils down to is, the window of time between Owen passing the scene and Borges arriving is about 6 minutes according to police, and I think it could have been less than 4. Let's think how lucky Z was....he arrives just after the hunters leave, and just before owen passes by(the time in between the hunters leaving and Owen passing is also very short). Somehow, by a miracle, not only is Zodiac NOT in the middle of the attack on the kids when Owen passes by, he somehow has managed to vanish and so do the kids. Owen claims he sees nobody around and no bodies. Yet, Owen claims about 30 seconds later, he hears a shot. Evidence shows that the kids were ordered out of the passenger side of the Rambler, and Dave was shot immediately, and Betty as she ran off. So even though Owen saw nobody around, within 30 seconds, the kids are back in their car,and Zodiac appears and orders them out of the car, in time for Owen to hear a shot. It doesn't add up, while it could happen,it simply seems like a miracle for it to work the way it did.

I think that it is 'POSSIBLE'(if Owen was Zodiac)that the Hunters left at about 11:10. And Borges found the bodies at about 11:20. That leaves Owen to minutes to arrive, do whatever he wants, take his time, etc. Here's where he could have messed up, it would be likely that he wanted to place himself at the scene in order to 'see the killer's car', and then place himself 'away from the scene' when the shooting started. He would have no idea that Borges was going to pass the scene very quickly after he left.

Another thing, assuming again for a second that Owen was telling the truth, and Zodiac's car was really parked next to the victim's, why would Z still go thru with the attack? For all he knew, his car description may have been witnesses or his plate#,etc...lucky for him, Owen saw the Victim's car, but could only tell that the car was "dark,and lacking in chrome". Pretty lucky,that Owen could give so little info about Zodiac's car,huh?

For all the reasons above, I think Owen continues to be the most logical suspect until being properly ruled out,and that will likely never happen now. In a way,I wish Borges had gotten there 2 minutes earlier, I think there might not be any zodiac mystery after 40+ years, and some victims would have been saved,but then again, perhaps Borges would have been shot too. I also think it's worth mentioning, that Borges did not pass any cars on her way to the scene(going by memory,correct me if I am wrong),which means Zodiac likely headed off in the other direction.

One other note: Mr & Mrs Your's clock was found to be off by several minutes, it was fast as I recall, like 10-20 min or something like that,so they were there earlier then they thought they were.

Posted: **Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:18 pm**

morf13 wrote:Another thing, assuming again for a second that Owen was telling the truth, and Zodiac's car was really parked next to the victim's, why would Z still go thru with the attack? For all he knew, his car description may have been witnesses or his plate#,etc...lucky for him, Owen saw the Victim's car, but could only tell that the car was "dark,and lacking in chrome". Pretty lucky,that Owen could give so little info about Zodiac's car,huh?

To play devil's advocate, morf, serial killers, like pretty much all people, aren't always creatures of logic. If Zodiac's bloodlust were high enough that night, he probably would've thrown caution to the wind.

Posted: **Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:27 pm**

morf13 wrote:A couple points to clear up-

Owen said he left his house at 11:00 and got to the scene at about 11:20. His clock was found to be 5 minutes fast, meaning he really left at about 10:55 and got there at 11:14 or so.

Can't find where it is said that his clock went wrong..Stella Borges' went 7 minutes, I think. Nevertheless the time 11:14 may be accurate.

Stella Borges said she left her house at about 11:10(going from memory), and that driving the 2and 7/10 miles from her house to the scene, she arrived there at about 11:15. If this was dad on, there was ZERO chance z could have done the shooting and escaped unseen. Here's where it gets real complicated, Stella's clock was found to be 3 minutes FAST. That means, she actually left at 11:07 or so,and would be there at 11:12 or so. Obviously,again, no way she got there before James Owen. She saw the bodies,and raced off at a high rate of speed to find police, which she did in Benicia at a gas station. Police indicate that she mad contact with them at 11:25,and that at the speed she drove, she had driven it in 5 minutes or so, which that puts her at the scene at 11:20.

Stella Borges, imo, did not require more than 4-5 minutes to get to the scene. If her clock was 11:10 PM and actually went one unit fast (http://www.zodiackiller.com/LHRPR19.html), she actually had left her house at 11:09 PM. To leave the house (with the coat still on), enter the car and driving to the scene makes it no later than 11:16 PM, imo. Like one minute to enter the car, 4 minutes to drive with 40mph towards the scene. Makes five minutes, actually coinciding with the time written on the scene sketch (11:14 PM). Possibly a maximum of six or seven, putting her to the scene at 11:16 PM, but she probably was at the scene a bit earlier than 11:20 PM, imo.

It means that Owen, having left at 11:00 PM or earlier at 10:55 PM, was about 5-10 minutes later at the scene, hearing the shot at sometime about 11:05 PM to 11:14 PM.

This is the 'miracle' 6 minutes in which Z got away unseen. The luckiest guy in the world? I doubt it.

Let's say for a second, Owen was telling the truth, and he was there at 11:14. He went by the scene, and claims he heard a shot a 1/4 mile down the road, which is basically, almost 11:15, now Zodiac has to be even luckier to get away unseen as the window is even tighter. Zodiac could have did the crime in about 2 minutes, assuming there was no small talk, or BS stories about wanting to rob them,etc. Or, if there was no resistance. If there was BS stories,or resistance of any sort, then maybe deduct a minute off the already small window.

I think what it boils down to is, the window of time between Owen passing the scene and Borges arriving is about 6 minutes according to police, and I think it could have been less than 4. Let's think how lucky Z was....he arrives just after the hunters leave, and just before owen passes by(the time in between the hunters leaving and Owen passing is also very short). Somehow, by a miracle, not only is Zodiac NOT in the middle of the attack on the kids when Owen passes by, he somehow has managed to vanish and so do the kids. Owen claims he sees nobody around and no bodies. Yet, Owen claims about 30 seconds later, he hears a shot. Evidence shows that the kids were ordered out of the passenger side of the Rambler, and Dave was shot immediately, and Betty as she ran off. So even though Owen saw nobody around, within 30 seconds, the kids are back in their car,and Zodiac appears and orders them out of the car, in time for Owen to hear a shot. It doesn't add up, while it could happen,it simply seems like a miracle for it to work the way it did.

True, as if Z had waited for Owen's car to pass by before leaving the car.

I think that it is 'POSSIBLE'(if Owen was Zodiac)that the Hunters left at about 11:10. And Borges found the bodies at about 11:20. That leaves Owen to minutes to arrive, do whatever he wants, take his time, etc. Here's where he could have messed up, it would be likely that he wanted to place himself at the scene in order to 'see the killer's car', and then place himself 'away from the scene' when the shooting started. He would have no idea that Borges was going to pass the scene very quickly after he left.

The hunters could have passed the scene at about 11:10 PM to 11:12 PM.

Another thing, assuming again for a second that Owen was telling the truth, and Zodiac's car was really parked next to the victim's, why would Z still go thru with the attack? For all he knew, his car description may have been witnesses or his plate#,etc...lucky for him, Owen saw the Victim's car, but could only tell that the car was "dark,and lacking in chrome". Pretty lucky,that Owen could give so little info about Zodiac's car,huh?

For all the reasons above, I think Owen continues to be the most logical suspect until being properly ruled out,and that will likely never happen now. In a way,I wish Borges had gotten there 2 minutes earlier, I think there might not be any zodiac mystery after 40+ years, and some victims would have been saved,but then again, perhaps Borges would have been shot too. I also think it's worth mentioning, that Borges did not pass any cars on her way to the scene(going by memory,correct me if I am wrong),which means Zodiac likely headed off in the other direction.

One other note: Mr & Mrs Your's clock was found to be off by several minutes, it was fast as I recall, like 10-20 min or something like that,so they were there earlier then they thought they were.

Posted: **Sat Dec 21, 2013 4:44 pm**

I will check the times and accuracy of the clocks later tonight. Off the top of my head, Owen assumed he left at 11:00, but really left at 10:55 since the clock he was going by was 5 minutes fast. Borges clock was found to be 1 or 3 minutes fast(forget off the top of my head),so she left 1-3 minutes sooner than she thought. The hunters, I agree, likely left at about 11:08-11:12, remember, they sat in their truck for a few minutes waiting for it to warm up before they left. I tend to think it was likely 11:08-11:10

Break these times down:

11:08-11:10, Hunters leave

11:14(if Owen is telling the truth)he passes the scene

11:14-11:20,Borges find the bodies.

For these times above, that's why Owen is such an interesting person of interest. Zodiac would have had to miracled his way next to the Rambler just after the hunters left,and before Owen got there. Then,he miracled his way out of there just after Owen left,and Borges found the bodies. The timing is so,so tight,andZ would have had to be extremely lucky. Again,it's a wonder that either Owen(if he was not zodiac)or Borges did not happen to pass by as Zodiac was shooting the couple.

Borges is the most interesting of all witnesses perhaps, because she was confident what time she left her house. The crime scene is 2&7/10 miles from her house,so at the speed she was driving, she knew what time she would have passed the scene. On top of that, her clock was fast, and she really got there earlier. I think it's possible,she just missed, within seconds, Zodiac exiting. The reason they think she must have really got to the scene a full 5-6 minutes later than she thought,was because she supposedly made contact with Pitta at 11:25,after driving at high speed, and when police went back to the scene driving at high speed,it took 5 minutes,so they assumed she had found the bodies 5 minutes before at 11:20. That's where some of the confusion came in. But I wonder, cops racing back to the scene may have driven faster back to the scene then Borges drove away from the scene to find them.

She said that Betty was ON HER SIDE when she saw her. Zodiac said that Betty was ON HER SIDE in his letter. When cops got back to the scene, Betty was FACE DOWN. I am no forensic or medical expert, but the only thing I can think of is that after she was shot,she wound up lying on her side, and she died after Borges went for help,falling over face down.

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