Zodiackillersite.com

It seems terribly unlikely that James Owen voluntarily came into the Sheriffs Office just to incriminate himself. There is not one thing in the whole world that is the least bit suspicious about his statement.

The one KNOWN "witness" who never came forward is the person in the car parked next to David's Rambler a minute or so before the shooting. According to the crime scene sketch that is based on his statement, it was parked head in. Maybe that sketch is wrong. If it's right, then the shooter apparently got out of the passenger side. If it's wrong, he got out of the drivers side. So there is a roughly fifty-fifty chance he got out of the passenger side, with a very slight edge given to passenger side.

It's also possible it was just a friend of theirs who pulled in, said, him and left. Moments later, the shooter, hiding in the darkness to the right of the Rambler walked up and started shooting. But then, why didn't the driver of that other car come forward and make a statement?

Obviously, if he got out of the passenger side, someone else, an accomplice, was driving. That night explain one thing: If someone was shooting at them from the passenger side of the car, then why on earth would Betty Lou and David get out of the car on that side? Maybe the driver of the other car got out first, ran around to the drivers side of the Rambler, and started chasing them out BEFORE the shooter got out of the passenger side and fired a warning shot into the BACK of the Rambler to stop Betty Lou from running away. Temporarily.

After asking David some .22 caliber questions and not getting the answers or assurances he wanted, he shot David, Betty Lou desperately tried to get away, and he very calmly and coolly gunned her down. He only missed a moving target once. That's experience. (Or maybe he tried firing one more warning shot at some point first.)

That of course implies he was an experienced killer who knew David and had a reason to shoot him. If he had an accomplice, that sounds like a drug dealer. We know David tangled with at least one drug dealer days before he got shot, and we know a shocking number of people were getting shot in Solano County over drugs at that time.

IF the crime scene sketch is correct. 50-50.

According to Terry Cunningham, two jail birds in Vallejo told him this exact story. He said the jail birds knew at least as much about it as the Zodiac did. They knew what Betty Lou and David were wearing, etc. They of course denied doing any of the shooting. They blamed the guy in the passenger seat. A beefy young thug with red hair known to Cunningham as a prime suspect in other shootings. That is, the kind of guy who could cold bloodedly gun down two high school kids on Christmass eve.

50-50.

What are the odds of a drug bust too--very near the same time David and Betty Lou were killed. It certainly does make one wonder.

BillRobison wrote:It seems terribly unlikely that James Owen voluntarily came into the Sheriffs Office just to incriminate himself. There is not one thing in the whole world that is the least bit suspicious about his statement.

Sorry, but have to totally disagree. Owen came to give his statement, 9 hours after the shooting, and was standing at the scene of the crime, with quite possibly, blood, or chalk outlines within site. He knew they were shot to death. All of this, but he does not mention hearing a shot the night before? Why? 3 Days later, they question him again, and he suddenly says he heard a shot after he passed the scene about a quarter mile down the road. I find it highly unlikely you would fail to mention hearing a shot while you are standing at the scene of a double shooting. The quarter mile part is very suspect as well, Owen claims there was nobody within site anyplace when he went by, in or out of the cars. But the shooting supposedly starts once he is a quarter mile down the road, which is likely 20-30 seconds. For this to be true, Zodiac would have had to spring out of wherever he was, and literally run up to Faraday's car, and start shooting. Would Z really take a major chance like that? A car passes, and within 30 seconds you are shooting?? It's suspect to me.

BillRobison wrote:
The one KNOWN "witness" who never came forward is the person in the car parked next to David's Rambler a minute or so before the shooting. According to the crime scene sketch that is based on his statement, it was parked head in. Maybe that sketch is wrong. If it's right, then the shooter apparently got out of the passenger side. If it's wrong, he got out of the drivers side. So there is a roughly fifty-fifty chance he got out of the passenger side, with a very slight edge given to passenger side.

Your details are incorrect.

If there really was a car parked next to Faraday's when Owen went by it, it belonged to the shooter, no exceptions. We know this because of Owen stating he heard a shot a 1/4 mile past the scene. The sketch of the two cars, is based on what Owen claims he saw when he passed the scene. There was no 'mystery witness' there a minute before the shooting. There are two possibilities:

1) Owen is telling the truth, and the car next to Faraday's was zodiac's, and started shooting immediately after Owen went by

or

2) Owen is lying about a 2nd car there, and anybody that was at the crime scene so close to the murders and is lying, should be considered a suspect.

These are the only two scenarios here.

If you have not done so, you may want to read the interview I did with James Owen, here-
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=66

Here's part of it:

MORF13- One thing I have a question about was regarding what you told them in the 2nd statement and not in the first statement. In the 2nd statement, you said that you thought you heard a gunshot, but you did not mention that in the first statement. Why didn’t you?

JO- “I didn’t know if it meant anything, I didn’t really know what was going on"

MORF13- So what can you tell me about hearing the shot?

JO- "when was it again? November?"

MORF13- no, it was December

JO- "It was a cool quiet night, and the leaves were off the trees, I think the sound carried well"

Morf:

I'm not quite following your logic, here. You're saying that Mr Owens "admitted" to hearing what MIGHT have been a gunshot because he's GUILTY, and that was his way of covering up? What about the kid who was "adjusting his girlfriend's motor" who, AFTER he read about Lundblad's ridiculous "theories" about the shooting in the newspaper, "remembered" that the guy who stopped to help was actually creepy and weird. AFTER his "memory" had been influenced by the newspapers.

Does that make HIM guilty?

George Bryant thought he heard kids setting off firecrackers in the parking lot of BRS. (He did.) He didn't call the cops, because he didn't think they were gunshots. AFTER cops told him someone was shot that night, he said, "Oh, yeah. I might have heard some gunshots, too." Does that make HIM guilty?

I just don't see one single solitary reason to seriously consider James Owens a "suspect." We know of a gang of cement heads who drove around Vallejo shooting people, and two of their "friends", who knew a LOT more than Zodiac did about LHR, said they were in the second car that James Owen saw there. They said they saw one of said cement heads get out of the car they were in and shoot Betty Lou and David. But, that guy can't possibly be a suspect, according to all the Zodiac experts. We know a witness, James Owen, whose statement seems to confirm what the two cement heads told police, that another car parked next to the Rambler seconds before the shooting started, and the empty shell casings confirm that said shooter got out of the passenger side of the second car. Just like the cement heads told Cunningham he did. But the WITNESS is a viable suspect?

The guy we know shot people in Vallejo and who was fingered by his friends for this shooting CAN'T be a suspect, but the witness who confirms that theory CAN be?

I don't get it. You've lost me completely.

BillRobison wrote:We know of a gang of cement heads who drove around Vallejo shooting people, and two of their "friends", who knew a LOT more than Zodiac did about LHR, said they were in the second car that James Owen saw there. They said they saw one of said cement heads get out of the car they were in and shoot Betty Lou and David.

Pardon my ignorance, Bill - but where does this come from? Is it in the FBI material?

I'm not being snarky or anything - it's a genuine question. I've read a similar story, I think - but no source to back it up was listed or linked to. And as such it just struck me as a tall tale at the time. There are plenty of those going around - which makes it all the more difficult to follow this case.

Norse wrote:

BillRobison wrote:We know of a gang of cement heads who drove around Vallejo shooting people, and two of their "friends", who knew a LOT more than Zodiac did about LHR, said they were in the second car that James Owen saw there. They said they saw one of said cement heads get out of the car they were in and shoot Betty Lou and David.

Pardon my ignorance, Bill - but where does this come from? Is it in the FBI material?

I'm not being snarky or anything - it's a genuine question. I've read a similar story, I think - but no source to back it up was listed or linked to. And as such it just struck me as a tall tale at the time. There are plenty of those going around - which makes it all the more difficult to follow this case.

I will try and find it Norse if BillR. doesn't beat me to the punch. It is a true story, although I seem to remember it ended up they/he/whoever could not have been responsible. I'm not sure. Surely Bill will fill us in.

I think they were the ones responsible for a gas station killing and were actually in jail (or at least one of them), but honestly...I could be mixing up thugs.

BillRobison wrote:Morf:

I'm not quite following your logic, here. You're saying that Mr Owens "admitted" to hearing what MIGHT have been a gunshot because he's GUILTY, and that was his way of covering up? What about the kid who was "adjusting his girlfriend's motor" who, AFTER he read about Lundblad's ridiculous "theories" about the shooting in the newspaper, "remembered" that the guy who stopped to help was actually creepy and weird. AFTER his "memory" had been influenced by the newspapers.

Does that make HIM guilty?

George Bryant thought he heard kids setting off firecrackers in the parking lot of BRS. (He did.) He didn't call the cops, because he didn't think they were gunshots. AFTER cops told him someone was shot that night, he said, "Oh, yeah. I might have heard some gunshots, too." Does that make HIM guilty?

I just don't see one single solitary reason to seriously consider James Owens a "suspect." We know of a gang of cement heads who drove around Vallejo shooting people, and two of their "friends", who knew a LOT more than Zodiac did about LHR, said they were in the second car that James Owen saw there. They said they saw one of said cement heads get out of the car they were in and shoot Betty Lou and David. But, that guy can't possibly be a suspect, according to all the Zodiac experts. We know a witness, James Owen, whose statement seems to confirm what the two cement heads told police, that another car parked next to the Rambler seconds before the shooting started, and the empty shell casings confirm that said shooter got out of the passenger side of the second car. Just like the cement heads told Cunningham he did. But the WITNESS is a viable suspect?

The guy we know shot people in Vallejo and who was fingered by his friends for this shooting CAN'T be a suspect, but the witness who confirms that theory CAN be?

I don't get it. You've lost me completely.

James Owen was at the scene of the Lake Herman Shooting within a minute or two, and possibly early as 30 seconds, from when the shooting started. Do you agree with that? Well, the simple answer is, YES, that's correct Bill.

He went on to give conflicting statements to police, for one reason or another, they are glaringly conflicting.

FACT: Owen states on 12/24 that he heard a shot a quarter mile past the scene of the crime. 3 Days earlier, 9 hours after the murders, he is standing at the scene of the crime giving his 1st statement to police, and never mentions hearing a shot. WHY? How does he leave out such a crucial piece of info at the murder scene, 9 hrs after the murders, but remembers that little detail 3 days later? Owen should have not left out this crucial detail. Come on, he is a detailed oriented person, or should be since he is a supervisor at Humble Oil, and was just out of the military, in both cases, I am sure details and reports are common.

FACT: on 12/21, Owen's statement says that the Zodiac's car was parked "about 10 feet apart" from Faraday's. Yet, on 12/24, in his second statement, he states the cars are now parked 3-4 feet apart.
Which is it, 3 or 4 feet apart, or 10?????? The difference in the distances may have clashed with the crime scene evidence, shell casings, etc.

Owen is the ONLY person, known to be at the scene of the crime between the Victims being last seen alive, and being found dead. That's a span of 6 minutes, although I think it's quite possibly shorter. Any person known to be there during that time, should have been ruled out properly. That was not done with Owen. Did they print him? Nope. Did they take his writing samples? Nope. When they finally realized that a rifle wasn't used in the crimes, and a handgun was, did they go back and ask Owen to test any handguns he owned? Nope. Did they catch the discrepancies in his statements like I did? Nope.

All I am saying is that Owen, as the only person confirmed to be at the scene of the crime during the small window of opportunity, should have been properly ruled out, and that was NOT done. It should have been.

Norse wrote:

BillRobison wrote:We know of a gang of cement heads who drove around Vallejo shooting people, and two of their "friends", who knew a LOT more than Zodiac did about LHR, said they were in the second car that James Owen saw there. They said they saw one of said cement heads get out of the car they were in and shoot Betty Lou and David.

Pardon my ignorance, Bill - but where does this come from? Is it in the FBI material?

I'm not being snarky or anything - it's a genuine question. I've read a similar story, I think - but no source to back it up was listed or linked to. And as such it just struck me as a tall tale at the time. There are plenty of those going around - which makes it all the more difficult to follow this case.

This sounds to me like, the theory is, "hey, these Guys shot somebody that night, maybe they also shot Dave & Betty".....only problem is, 'Bill' has nothing to back this theory up.

Here is a link I created for this site in regards to "Terry Cunningham's" report:

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1790&p=21446#p21446

Hopefully any discussion of these guys can be continued there.