Hanging round the crime scene....

[sandy betts]

Thank you Greg , for posting this picture.
This picture was taken from the upstairs of a home that had access to Julius Kahn playground. I was in that home which was having an estate sale that weekend . Thanks to Greg for calling me to tell me it was open to the public.

The home was three floors, the bottom floor was a basement that had been converted into what looked to me to be a apartment it had
a back door that went out to Pacific ave. It was directly across the street from the playground that was thought to be where Zodiac had walked towards when last seen. In 1969 the home was owned by Iver Lyche . Mr Lyche died in 2004, he was the founder of Alpine Meadows (Lake Tahoe ). I can't help but wonder did he rent out that Apt to Zodiac for a few days or a month?

Was Zodiac someone who worked for Mr Lycke in Lake Tahoe ?

[Welsh Chappie]

I always assumed that he was intent on disappearing into JK playground, or the General Grounds of the Presidio at the very least until I started to realise that his own actions don't make sense if that was his intended destination.
If Zodiac was heading for the Presidio Grounds because of it's obviously remote location and offer cover of darkness and several escape routes unlike the Streets of Pacific Heights, then the question that I keep asking is why did he turn right at the top of Cherry St then? Why did he walk down the hill on Jackson st if he's desperate to get off the street and under the cover of darkness? Why do that when at the top of Cherry St there is an entrance to the Presidio grounds almost identical to the one at Maple st which many believed he used? It makes no sense to me that if he was intent on the Presidio as the destination, why ignore the far closer and quicker entrance onto it in favour of staying at high risk of capture on the street instead? Surely if we assume that his motive for wanting to get onto the grounds of the presidio, or specifically the JK Park, was to get off the lit streets and high risk of capture and onto a vast expanse of grounds that isn't well lit and highly populated then why ignore the entrance onto West Pacific Avenue that is located right at the top of Cherry St? That, along with Zodiac's overly eager attempts to convince us that he was in the park, is the reason why I think it's possible that he had no intension of going to the presidio or park, and there is a reason why he elected to stay on Jackson St instead. There just has to be a reason for him to ignore the closest escape route to safety and decide to take the route that was far more risky and dangerous both for being captured by police on foot or in a vehicle and/or being seen by many witnesses. I think he possibly stayed on Jackson St because he needed to in order to get to wherever it was that he was going whether that be a house or vehicle, I just don't think he was heading for, and then planned to escape into, the Presidio and JK Playground, but I think he knew that that is where the police would assume he had gone because of it's dark and secluded location.

[greg]

Chappie,
My personal feeling is that Z used Maple St. as a marker to tell him where he left his escape vehicle or where to cut through the wall at Pacific..I took a cab to take me to the crime scene..and there is gap along Washington St. which marks Maple really well.. for whatever reason, Z couldn't kill Stine at Maple and had him pull up to Cherry..another reason why Z could have said in his letter "over by Washington & Maple" he obviously didn't remember or know the area that well....I know Sandy disagrees with me on this..but it's just a feeling I have...nothing absolute of course..

[sandy betts]

Greg you are correct, I don't agree with that idea, you aren't the only one who thinks that is what happened. Everyone has their own ideas as to what was what in the Z case and that is fine.
My feeling is that he mentioned Maple because he was staying closer to Maple than Cherry , staying there for a short time for whatever reason . Zodiac realizing that he didn't want the police to figure out that he was staying closer to Maple, he had Paul Stine drive one more block to have the police look south of where he would be.After shooting Stine he walks back towards Maple on Jackson street, where he was last seen walking.
I think he felt very safe knowing he would be inside of a home long before the police could be there. He had no idea of course that there was a patrol car not that far away at that time, therefore he was spotted. He then watched everything from the comforts of a window that overlooked the playground area . He could not know all the details of what the police , dogs, fire trucks, motorcycles etc were doing if he was driving away from the crime scene. He would be taking a huge chance of getting caught if he was sitting in a car in that area watching. I am pretty sure he wasn't the only one looking out their windows on Pacific ave. After all, the police were looking for a robber who needed money ,not a person inside of a home in that very expensive neighborhood. I would like to see the trip sheet of anyone who took a cab from PH to the theater district earlier that evening, say around 5pm ?

[mike_r]

Hi Welsh-

Well, this is certainly not new ground. I've been thinking about these issues for many, many years now. Why, indeed, eschew the entrance into the park at Cherry? The bigger issue to me is why, if he decided to walk up Cherry to Jackson and then found himself walking down Jackson to Maple, was he walking so damn slowly? Didn't he care about being caught? It seems clear to me that unless he had absolute sang froid, he did not realize that the kids had seen him at Washington and Cherry. If he did not know that anyone had seen him (as the kids state, since they say he never looked up at them) and that the police might be mere seconds away for converging on the area, then he would have no reason to hurry.

And as for a home overlooking the park area with a great view of the search area, don't get me started.

Mike

[Tahoe27]

Chappie,
My personal feeling is that Z used Maple St. as a marker to tell him where he left his escape vehicle or where to cut through the wall at Pacific..I took a cab to take me to the crime scene..and there is gap along Washington St. which marks Maple really well.. for whatever reason, Z couldn't kill Stine at Maple and had him pull up to Cherry..another reason why Z could have said in his letter "over by Washington & Maple" he obviously didn't remember or know the area that well....I know Sandy disagrees with me on this..but it's just a feeling I have...nothing absolute of course..

I tend to agree with you greg. Or, he was simply reiterating he was the guy the cops saw turn on Maple. He had to have known they saw him take that route.

I think he was simply walking back to his car and turned to the park when the cops saw him.

[ggluckman]

Hi Welsh-

Well, this is certainly not new ground. I've been thinking about these issues for many, many years now. Why, indeed, eschew the entrance into the park at Cherry? The bigger issue to me is why, if he decided to walk up Cherry to Jackson and then found himself walking down Jackson to Maple, was he walking so damn slowly? Didn't he care about being caught? It seems clear to me that unless he had absolute sang froid, he did not realize that the kids had seen him at Washington and Cherry. If he did not know that anyone had seen him (as the kids state, since they say he never looked up at them) and that the police might be mere seconds away for converging on the area, then he would have no reason to hurry.

And as for a home overlooking the park area with a great view of the search area, don't get me started.

Mike

Speaking of Z's apparent sang froid and his reason for walking rather than hightailing it...

Is it feasible/plausible that he took advantage of the taxi radio to somehow crossover to a police channel to report that the attacker was a black male?

If he was confident that the police would be on the lookout for a non-caucasian, he would have had good reason to walk, not run. It would also explain the apparent gaff.

Just wildy speculating. Not sure if it is even possible. Any thoughts?

Tks,

G

[Tahoe27]

Zodiac running from the crime scene...not the best way to leave the area. He certainly wouldn't want to draw any attention to himself...even hurried.

[mike_r]

Hi-

The real question is this: If he knew he had been seen at the crime scene, why wasn't he hyper-aware of any approaching headlights from any direction. Head on a swivel. How did Fouke ever sneak up on him, unless he felt there was no threat because nobody had seen him. Didn't he care?

I don't think that walking down Jackson Street at a brisk pace would have attracted any undue attention to him.

Mike

[greg]

To satisfy Welsh Chappie's question..as to why going over to Maple and not take Cherry to escape ? Because there is a gate at Maple which leads into the Presidio..if he escaped thru Cherry, he'd have to leap over the retaining wall and in total darkness, that would be a kinda risky..